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 Bash Crit Pulverize

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Mr.Blonde
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PostSubject: Bash Crit Pulverize   Mon Oct 18, 2010 8:32 pm

did some testing today with epic and pisss...

we all know none of these stack correctly on range, but on melee?

well after about 20 mins of rigorous rahim style testing, the results are in, BASH will be overridden by Pulverize if pulverzie is lvled first, that is a complete override, no stun or damage from bash will be appllied at all, and as expected crit really didnt' affect anything at all

So this means

Don't PICK BOTH MEA and bash. unless you are stupid
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PostSubject: Re: Bash Crit Pulverize   Wed Oct 20, 2010 1:41 am

I thought you were talking about pulverize not MEA...
Top confusing me!
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PostSubject: Re: Bash Crit Pulverize   Wed Oct 20, 2010 1:55 am

Sorry... but you shouldn't do that either anyway...

Don't pick MEA and Pulverize or Bash and Pulverize
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PostSubject: Re: Bash Crit Pulverize   Wed Oct 20, 2010 8:46 am

pulverize isnt based on bash; it is based on the skill pulverize. a completely different proc chance. Unlike bash, pulverize is sent out in an AoE of your hero, I believe. Could be wrong on that one, but in the game, that is the way it seems to work.

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PostSubject: Re: Bash Crit Pulverize   Wed Oct 20, 2010 9:23 am

yes i know, thats why i went to test it out, because there should be no interactions between bash and pulverize, but there seems to be one, you are welcome to test it out yourself.
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PostSubject: Re: Bash Crit Pulverize   Wed Oct 20, 2010 9:24 am

i think the way to fix this is to make pulverize a cleave based ability with hardcoded fixed damage, from a dummy unit well 2 dummies if you wanna make it an aoe... but still thats the purely experimental data i got
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PostSubject: Re: Bash Crit Pulverize   Wed Oct 20, 2010 9:29 am

Actually, that would be really easy to make in a trigger; like.. insanely easy... no dummy units needed...

Add the the event "Skills Pulverize" when a unit picks the skill,
Event - Triggering unit attacks
Condition - Random integer between 1-100 is less than equal to 30
Action - Pick every unit in X range of (triggering unit, OR, attacked unit) and deal X damage to picked unit of type Spell - Magic

^^Skills are easy

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PostSubject: Re: Bash Crit Pulverize   Wed Oct 20, 2010 9:42 am

well if you fix it, then my making this whole thread was pointless : (... jk you should do it asap preferable before the next version comes out.
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PostSubject: Re: Bash Crit Pulverize   Wed Oct 20, 2010 9:43 am

but the whole concept of pulverize i feel like pure damage makes more sense... but scaling the numbers down by 20% to compensate... i mean its not really magic or physical its something weird
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PostSubject: Re: Bash Crit Pulverize   Wed Oct 20, 2010 10:03 am

no; no pure damage. Go away with your OP suggestions of pure damage.

With 90% damage reduction from armor, 100 pure damage is like adding 1000 damage to an attack. This is OP; gtfo.

No pure damage skill would ever be able to farm, at all, worth a shit, in any way-shape or form. you are better off taking the spell damage, and having a skill that can farm.

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PostSubject: Re: Bash Crit Pulverize   Wed Oct 20, 2010 10:38 am

idk why you hate pure damage so much, its such a good mechanism that isn't used in CHA barely, i realize the math relationship, but how much of the game do u have 90% reduction? like last 10 mins of a 40 min game, sure it will be powerful late game, but if it starts out say at 30 and scales to 125 say, thats like adding 1250 every 3 attacks when shields block i think around what 800 damage every 2 attacks? not to mention pure damage will be dealt as a separate instance and can be owned easily by damage block.
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PostSubject: Re: Bash Crit Pulverize   Wed Oct 20, 2010 12:36 pm

The part where pure dmg is op is mid game... The time you deal like... 400-600 dmg after that it is like an extra attack... conidering it being 100 pure and before that it is quite regular. When a person has 89% reduction the dmgh output will be around 1-3k ...


Last edited by tuusneegepro on Wed Oct 20, 2010 12:37 pm; edited 1 time in total
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PostSubject: Re: Bash Crit Pulverize   Wed Oct 20, 2010 12:36 pm

Which hero did you use to test this?
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PostSubject: Re: Bash Crit Pulverize   Wed Oct 20, 2010 2:18 pm

Tuus if you have 600 damage with deathstrike thats like 3000 damage 10% of the time making it 300 bonus assuming its mid game and deathstrike is maxed, where as 125 would be 1250 if it hits 30% of the time thats around 400 so its not that much of a difference in damage with 90% reduction

and it was tested on assassian i think? idk some melee hero agi
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PostSubject: Re: Bash Crit Pulverize   Wed Oct 20, 2010 2:19 pm

Another example of Pure damage, if you dodge an attack with Fire AXE 2 splash of 325 PURE on you and 625 PURE ON EVERYONE..... that is soooo much more imba than pulverize its retarded...
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PostSubject: Re: Bash Crit Pulverize   Wed Oct 20, 2010 3:42 pm

I just ran a test of my own the bashes work just fine with pulverize could you have mistaken luck hax for fact?

Seriously leveled pulverize bought like 5 staffs and I was bashing everysingle hit and doing the damage just fine. I will maybe look into Warden there are a few heroes whos attacks register screwy take old school Knight of the Round table he was a melee hero whos attacks registered as range in the older versions of cha. Currently I know of one right now rider furion who is range yet his attacks register as melee.
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PostSubject: Re: Bash Crit Pulverize   Wed Oct 20, 2010 3:45 pm

i didn't mean item bash i meant skill bash!!! i noticed you can't proc both at one time which means one will override the other always unless i had 30 mins of serious bad luck idk
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PostSubject: Re: Bash Crit Pulverize   Wed Oct 20, 2010 7:04 pm

fire splash maxes at 300, actually; though I didnt post that on items. And that is in a 300 AoE; so only really works if 2 guys are on top of each other; and the pure will only splash to other targets, NOT to the main target.

Main target splash is a different ballpark; especially when you arent talking about using your orb affect for it.

Also, damage reduction aint got shit on pure damage. Look at blood bath, 80 damage reduction doesnt reduce it at alllllll. Damage reduction only affects attack damage; not triggered damage.

do the math on 80% damage reduction, which can be easily obtained by 3rd duel, on a tank build...
125 damage X 5 = 625
That is like adding 625 damage mid game; which I think is reasonable, for a single target attack; not a large AoE splash.

On a splash, I would have to say 90-100 damage, as a cap; this is on a large AoE (500ish) which would mean that it is useless for creeping, and still strong for pvp; because, well, splash is amazing, especially in a huge AoE, and when it doesnt take up your orb affect.

Keep in mind, you will have max attack speed at the same time; so this will proc every 1.5 seconds. at 90 dmg, that is 60 dmg a second, that cannot be reduced by anything for any reason.

Also, you suggest a pure damage ability, then argue that it isnt for late game? Pure damage is for the sake of late game. When spells and attacks are useless, is where pure damage shines. At the first duel, 100 pure damage is worth only like, 130 attack damage. At level 40, 100 attack damage is worth 1000 attack damage.

Pure=late game

EDIT:
Ohh didnot, I fixed rider furion BTW, and checked every other hero, all heroes have the right attack type now.

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PostSubject: Re: Bash Crit Pulverize   Wed Oct 20, 2010 7:10 pm

Aw kill joy I was having fun perma stunning people with him while theyre stuck in a bone wall.
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PostSubject: Re: Bash Crit Pulverize   Wed Oct 20, 2010 7:39 pm

300 aoe is pretty big, especially if you are against melee heros... plus damage block can block pure damage, just not triggered damage because that is actually hp removal. you can add pure damage as a seperate instanace and make it blockable... i never said it wasn't as good late game, i was saying games now don't ever last till lvl 40 now with shorter time between duels... atleast not in my experience...
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PostSubject: Re: Bash Crit Pulverize   Wed Oct 20, 2010 7:47 pm

but your pulverize won't hit more than 2 people unless they are both melee, in which case a fire orb will suffice, fire orb, will also hit 2 people if they are melee... you down play 300 aoe but its pretty decent sized aoe
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PostSubject: Re: Bash Crit Pulverize   Wed Oct 20, 2010 7:56 pm

what do you mean as an instance? right now, blood bath, is pure damage. It isnt a trigger to remove HP from a unit, it is `cause attacking unit to take 20 damage of attack unknown, type universal` or whatever pure damage is. `from attacked unit`

something along those lines.. and it is unblockable by damage reduction, because it is attack type unknown, and damage reduction only affects attack damage...

And you are suggesting that 500 AoE can only hit the area the same size as 300 AoE? 500 can easily hit ranged attackers; especially since pulv has a half damage radius of 800 anyway.

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PostSubject: Re: Bash Crit Pulverize   Wed Oct 20, 2010 10:24 pm

see thats not how i would do it at all what i had in mind was unit attacks unit, trigger chance 1 in 3 or what not... applies X chaos damage.

what im suggesting is if ranged heros are smart they can walk out of a 500 aoe and continue attacking, because most of them have 600 range
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PostSubject: Re: Bash Crit Pulverize   Wed Oct 20, 2010 10:34 pm

and can you not follow a ranged unit, attacking? so as that while they run, you are still getting attacks off?

And swapping to pure damage would do what exactly, except either be stronger than death strike, weaker than death strike, or the same as death strike; in each theory, doing exactly the same thing as death strike? Dealing a shit ton more damage?

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PostSubject: Re: Bash Crit Pulverize   Wed Oct 20, 2010 10:49 pm

you can follow 1 ranged unit with pulverize, just like you can follow 1 ranged unit with fire orb... i dont' see how that changes anything, but if its 2 or more one can run you know in the opposite direction? it has to be weaker than death strike, im not suggesting it should be stronger on a single target, but it would be nice to have some nice AOE physical attack with some power to it.

but thats a bullshit comparison and you know it... whats the point of having chain lighting if you have nova
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