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 Level 15 skill changes

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Glorn2
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PostSubject: Re: Level 15 skill changes   Fri Sep 17, 2010 12:25 am

without getting too far into it; there were some game mechanics based around defend, that cause it to fail in ways I dont feel like getting into.

Just know, I didnt remove it because I didnt like it; I removed it because aspects of it were unreliable, in terms of working, ever; just the way it is programmed into WC3. I attempted to create a custom version of it also, and failed... I searched on the hive and thehelper, and it came up dry...

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PostSubject: Re: Level 15 skill changes   Fri Sep 17, 2010 3:24 am

To bad, defend would be a pretty raunchy skill to have with holy armour... Well, it would be interesting to test..
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PostSubject: Re: Level 15 skill changes   Fri Sep 17, 2010 9:45 am

defend was so good back in the day >.>, but there is a way to custom trigger it as a triggered heal, which works really really well!
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PostSubject: Re: Level 15 skill changes   Fri Sep 17, 2010 10:06 am

a triggered heal wont prevent you from a death though!

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PostSubject: Re: Level 15 skill changes   Fri Sep 17, 2010 11:59 am

ya it can, it can stop you from dying... as long as the damage is less than you max hp you can make it work. thats teh thing about triggered heals there is no way to have it work so it heals for more than ur max hp
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PostSubject: Re: Level 15 skill changes   Fri Sep 17, 2010 12:00 pm

ill find some coding for you if you really want, but its gonna be the back track coding from dota, so you wouldn't like it, but you could modify cause we all know you rage at the idea of dota
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PostSubject: Re: Level 15 skill changes   Fri Sep 17, 2010 1:13 pm

Backtrack kind of border line imba theres a reason they nerfed faceless strength gain.
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PostSubject: Re: Level 15 skill changes   Fri Sep 17, 2010 1:38 pm

back track and evasion are pretty imba ass skills overall, thats why they are so low in dota, but you wouldn't really use back track to make defend, you would modify the skill so it heals a percentage of the damage recived, which checks hp every .2 secs or so, or possibly higher, depending on how u wanna crunch the numbers, but this kinda back track could be coded not to evade spells, which would make it much more useable in the context of CHA
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PostSubject: Re: Level 15 skill changes   Fri Sep 17, 2010 8:32 pm

having another trigger than runs every .2 is bad. it is why I had to get rid of phantom bolt, if anyone read that post. You cannot have too many trigger like that running, or it puts too much straing on the 2002 made system, and causes game crashes.

However, using triggered heals, it would be easy...

Say, defend blocks 5% per level of the damage you take (doesnt stack with your armor though) Make a trigger...
When someone learns the skill defend, add the event to the trigger,
Event-triggering unit is attacked
(Then I would need a damage detection method, to make it not proc from evasion)
set HP of triggering unit to (hp of triggering unit) + (damage of attacking unit/100)X(level of defend for attacked unitx5) that way, for every level, you gain back whatever % of damage you would normally have blocked.

Why this wouldnt work? Well, if someone has 3000 damage, and you have 2900 HP; you will die before the heal goes off.

really, though, triggering something like this, would be almost identical to holy armor; the same concept. And defend wasnt very good, unless combined with mana shield.

Pick up spiked armor, or devotion aura; you will find that at max level, it reduces damage taken by a lot; and it stacks with your existing armor! even better, level 15 frost armor is like... 112 armor!

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PostSubject: Re: Level 15 skill changes   Fri Sep 17, 2010 11:34 pm

You know this will probably make me very unpopular but if ults are level 6 maybe bombs should either be removed or nerfed. I know they can be overcome but thinking it over a player can easily speed to level 6 without even trying with bombs and not even break a sweat doing it. I mean bombs are fairly popular but I honestly would hate for them to be the get this first or you auto lose item of the game and I think with level 6 ultimates that might just happen.
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PostSubject: Re: Level 15 skill changes   Fri Sep 17, 2010 11:51 pm

I had that thought, unrelated to level 6 ultis. I was just gonna increase the starting cost of bombs; but scale the later levels of them up a bit in dmg. Level 1 bombs are the only ones that will clear an entire spawn for you; at their level range. So, I am gonna make them a solid 2200G. Mid and large bombs will get a quite small buff to damage though; mid bombs will get a small boost to cost also.

I dont want to remove bomb starts from the game; i just dont want for them to work on any build ever created. you pay a heavy price for having zero gold at the first duel!

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PostSubject: Re: Level 15 skill changes   Sat Sep 18, 2010 2:28 am

2200 will make boms completely unuseable, at most lvl 1 bombs should cost 1.5k imo, because really the bombs are 2 lvl 1 nukes and when you compare that to the costs of mana pots, bombs become worthless.
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PostSubject: Re: Level 15 skill changes   Sat Sep 18, 2010 2:40 am

bombs level faster than any skill in the game, early on. If you are good with them; you can make up the gold difference by the first duel.

^^I dont lose to bomb starts... but; they are strong; and cheap. You can still get those levels; but you will be paying out a bit more gold. I will prolly even it between 1250 and 2200.. that is, ~1750 for now; and see how it does.

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PostSubject: Re: Level 15 skill changes   Sat Sep 18, 2010 10:59 am

well thats true in small games where you can dominate the map, but in larger games, where there are many players, bombs aren't as effective and are mainly a ganking/anti-stummons tool, and by making them expensive early on it is harder to kill mass summons for the first few duels.
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PostSubject: Re: Level 15 skill changes   Sat Sep 18, 2010 11:22 am

What about a small mana cost? Like 50-75 mana per use is that too unreasonable?
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PostSubject: Re: Level 15 skill changes   Sat Sep 18, 2010 11:40 am

level 1 bombs are stronger than any farming skill starts out as; and a mana cost would make them unusable on the heroes with less mana.

Higher gold cost!

Summons no longer have spell damage reduction from puppet master; learn to kill them without bombs? 1 rank 1 bomb, will kill allllll rank 1 skellys in 1 hit!

Really, im getting tired of these bombs+potions start people; who get try to gank, fail, waste their potions, fail, and have nothing for the first duel, though they are level 10; then ragequit because they cant creep after losing the duel. Consumables are meant to be a buffer; not a staple of a build.

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PostSubject: Re: Level 15 skill changes   Sat Sep 18, 2010 12:05 pm

people rage quit cause they are bad, not because they buy bombs... thats like saying lets give everyone a lvl boost if they survive to the first duel cause they didn't ragequit... bombs are pretty balanced already imo, and just in need of a minor buff at higher levels and maybe a small nerf at lower ones.
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PostSubject: Re: Level 15 skill changes   Sat Sep 18, 2010 12:07 pm

and just because bombs are the best farming skill at lvl 1 doesn't mean they dominate for that long, in team games, the lvl 1 creeps are there for like 1 min and within 2-3 mins everything is lvl 2-4 creeps... plus, to give up that much gold early game to farm, bombs better be the best creeping tool. bomb builds can easily get out farmed in mid game, idk why they need a nerf
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PostSubject: Re: Level 15 skill changes   Sat Sep 18, 2010 12:10 pm

O here is another way to fix the bomb situation, make bombs buyable in smaller stackable quantities how about 5 for 1000 that way they get a "nerf" 10 for 2000 but you can stilll buy them early and they will be useable.

though then you are gonna say bombs are gona become a staple,

to which i will reply you still sacrifice 1000 gold, for somthing that right now would cost you 1250/2 so its still a nerf

to which you will reply its too imba

to which i will so idc stop tinkering with them bitch
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PostSubject: Re: Level 15 skill changes   Sat Sep 18, 2010 12:27 pm

first of all: warned. 480 posts and you still haven't found an edit button?

but anyway;

Throw a bomb, kill 7 creeps, gain 500 gold from the kill gold.

Bombs resell for 75% of their buying cost. From throwing a single bomb, you can then sell then take your free level 3, and sell your bombs, and have more than normal starting gold.

A smart person will use bombs to clear 2-3 spawns in 20 seconds; then sell them to play a normal game. Too bad people are so afraid of selling in this game; which is why you guys are so bad with bombs...

you dont play anymore anyways; so how does it effect you?

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PostSubject: Re: Level 15 skill changes   Sat Sep 18, 2010 12:29 pm

doesn't mean i won't come back to play later

plus this is how much i care about being warned >< see that tiny space between the greater than and less than signs. thats how much
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PostSubject: Re: Level 15 skill changes   Sat Sep 18, 2010 12:35 pm

Honestly I got nothing wrong with them however with them and level 6 ults you could begin to see a problem. I honestly wish Im wrong but I got a feeling that I might not be. I guess wait and see. What ever happened to the bomb mode thing you mention way back when you know the all you can buy is bombs and potions pvp gank fest.
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PostSubject: Re: Level 15 skill changes   Sat Sep 18, 2010 1:11 pm

bomberman mode? It is on my reallllly long to-do list, towards the bottom; because it will be as unused as my other modes... The PVP arena one is next on my list, that charge suggested. (i think it was charge)

Im putting bombs at 1750 for now; if they are completely unused in the next edit, I will bump them back down.

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PostSubject: Re: Level 15 skill changes   Sun Sep 19, 2010 5:24 pm

how aboutttttt 2200 - boots cost - cloak, crown, or gaunt cost.

sooooo

1500? still a nerf.
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PostSubject: Re: Level 15 skill changes   Tue Sep 21, 2010 4:55 pm

Mr.Blonde wrote:
plus this is how much i care about being warned >< see that tiny space between the greater than and less than signs. thats how much

You can borrow my Avatar for a bit if you like.

I like bombs the way they are. Mid-Game bombs need a bit of a boost to damage imo. Not that I ever use the damned things, but they do add another layer of strategy to CHA. So that to me, is a good thing.
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