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 New Skill Discussion! no suggestion

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Glorn2
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PostSubject: New Skill Discussion! no suggestion   Wed Feb 17, 2010 1:27 pm

Disclaimer:
If you wanna suggest skills, then go to the skill suggestion area and have at it. If it is a minor tweak, or skill house change to one of the skills I post here; then of course you can post it here. If you wanna add a silence, stun, and 1.6Xagility in damage to it; go to skill suggestions.


Alright, So, I am currently adding new, custom-trigger abilities to the game. After I add a skill, and balance it out reasonably well (none of the numbers are permanent) I will post it here for everyone to see and discuss and ask questions about.

Keep in mind here; do not read too much into the actual numbers on the skills. They will be balanced with testing; Just look at the general outline of the skill, and talk about that.

Onto the skills: (Thanks to the Hive Workshop for a lot of these)

===============================================
Bloodbath: Misc, Passive (melee farming/pvp skill)
When your hero is hit, there is a chance (currently 4+2Xlevel) that your hero will spill its nasty alien-like acidic blood on all enemies in a 250 AoE dealing damage per second to all of them for 5 seconds. (Currently 10+5Xlevel very subject to change) THIS ABILITY STACKS! (that is, if 30 guys are hitting you, they can stack this acid affect on themselves MANY times) ***Edit, Edit, Edit! This skill is now a Bleed, it works on magic immunes, and isnt reduced by spell reduction. I have lowered the proc chance by 1/4. From 28% to 21% ***
===============================================
Scream: Misc, Castable
Damages units around your hero for 40+50XLevel, and silences them for 1.5+.5XLevel, AoE is 250+25 per level. (Similar to befuddle, except is cast from your heroes position and deals damage rather than disabling attack, AoE gets larger also)
===============================================
Fire Wall: Offensive, Castable
Creates a wall of fire at targeted point, about 600 yards long. Any ground enemy unit to touch the fire, is burned for X damage a second. the wall lasts for 10 seconds. (Im thinking something like 8+7 damage per level, then +11 after lvl 7)
===============================================
Cyclone: Ultimate, Castable
Created a waterific cyclone on your hero; sucking all enemies in a 450 AoE in. It then deals damage (currently 600X level) and knocks them back 100+100 yards X level. Mild cooldown.
===============================================
Poison Nova: Off, castable
Creates a ring of poison around the hero to damage nearby enemy units. A unit hit by the nova will X take damage per second for X seconds. Doesnt stack. (I gotta test this one out a lot before I can put any kind of number on it, but it will be less than parasite)
===============================================

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Last edited by Glorn2 on Tue Apr 27, 2010 8:58 pm; edited 8 times in total
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Pissonmyhands
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PostSubject: Re: New Skill Discussion! no suggestion   Wed Feb 17, 2010 1:59 pm

Ok nvm scratch what i said earlier. But that just seems so oped when people are attacking at max speeds XD especially if its stackable :p
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PostSubject: Re: New Skill Discussion! no suggestion   Wed Feb 17, 2010 2:23 pm

Not even gonna crunch numbers on it or anything? really? that lazy?

Max level, 28% chance to hit. Max attack speed for most heroes is .5 seconds or worse
Max Damage is 70 per second, lasting for 5 seconds. Thats <400 damage, over 5 seconds.
In a 1v1 situation, assuming this is maxed, as is your opponents attack speed, every 4 hits this skill will go off. That is, every 2 seconds this will proc. It lasts for 5, so it will stack 2.5X on top of itself once it gets a good rolling going.

400X2.5 is what? 1000 damage.
What other skills do 1000 damage? I think in fact, every single farming skill in the game can deal that much damage in a single cast; and doesnt require you to get the shit kicked outta yourself to deal it. Also note, it is 250 range; casting units wont be hit by this.

I intentionally started with low numbers, so I could work them up until they were viable; rather than high numbers I would have to work down. Please in the future put at least 2 minutes into thought before posting.

My general basis for this skill is a late game form of immolation. It wont be as strong early; or as good at creeping. However, late game, with faster attacking creeps, and for pvp; this will start to shine.

Again, by discuss, I dont mean casually throw your 2 cents out there without any validity to your statement.

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Last edited by Glorn2 on Wed Feb 17, 2010 7:05 pm; edited 1 time in total
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PostSubject: Re: New Skill Discussion! no suggestion   Wed Feb 17, 2010 2:58 pm

so if more than 1 person is attacking you. 25% of say 3 or 4 peoples attacks could deal 1000 damage? thats kinda alot..
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PostSubject: Re: New Skill Discussion! no suggestion   Wed Feb 17, 2010 3:14 pm

Correct; if 3-4 people are attacking you; it will trigger more. However, if it is 4v1 end game, when this skill is worthy; you will still be taking too much damage to win the fight. Especially if they get spell reduction.

My main reason for allowing the damage to be so "high" is because in order for any of that damage to be dealt; you need to be getting hit. So yes, with 4 players hitting you; the damage output of this skill will be really high. However, with 4 players hitting you, you wont survive long enough for it to matter. This is more of a "hey, dont focus fire me!" type skill.

***Also, everyone please keep in mind; the numbers on these skills will be changed once they are tested enough. The numbers I provide will most likely NOT be the same in an edit that goes out to the public.***

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PostSubject: Re: New Skill Discussion! no suggestion   Wed Feb 17, 2010 5:53 pm

I like the new ideas, and hopefully more on the way.

BloodBath: I like the idea, (cuz its more or less my suggestion ^_^) I think it's chance to PROC early needs a boost, cuz you will need an offensive farming skill with it, and have 1 less disable then other players. Lategame it seems powerful, unless they're smart and get magic resistance. (glorns math in 1v1) = 1k dmg at a time at most, hero resistance 25%, cloak of unseen or something 50% = 375 actual dmg per second to a 11-14k hp hero is a buff immolation, and seems pretty ballanced. (I can't wait to do a bloodbath mana flare build in a 4.0 pub, oh god, it'll be fun)

Scream: Really cool idea, sound like my new fav skill. In team battles this will be very powerful, unlike d pulse it silences enemies, which is awesome. 1v1 the silence wont be very useful after 2-3 duels.

Wall of Fire: Good idea, would synergise well with ranged heros with bone wall, but may be a bit too close to flamestrike.

i think a couple new ultis, and more offensive skills would be fun =)
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PostSubject: Re: New Skill Discussion! no suggestion   Wed Feb 17, 2010 6:08 pm

I thought you would love bloodbath. I do not intend for it to be a farming skill though; not early. It is meant to be like mana flare; a secondary skill that helps out quite a bit; but you cant rely on it.

Downside? evasion. If you arent getting hit; it isnt going off! This doesnt work too well with crowd controls or evasion.

Yeah, I originally had scream duration similar to befuddle and soul burn; but realized, there was no other CC to it. So, I gave it a buff. It is over 10 seconds at max level; which can help a little with bosses and creeps. But this skill really isnt made for 1v1; as it is an AoE. In bigger games where people level slower; I think it could be quite potent.

Wall of fire is like flamestrike; I was thinking that too; but when comparing notes, they are quite a bit different. The areas they affect are very different; the durations are very different, the time between damage ticks is VERY different (10X) and really, they require completely different styles of play... I think it is both that they are fire that really brings them together though... maybe I should change the fire to blue...

Thanks for feedback ^_^

*edit, I changed up Blood Bath, check it out*

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PostSubject: Re: New Skill Discussion! no suggestion   Thu Feb 18, 2010 10:31 pm

blood bath w/ terrify late game might work.

Make it ice wall and have it slow and deal dmg. just like chax Smile
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PostSubject: Re: New Skill Discussion! no suggestion   Thu Feb 18, 2010 11:38 pm

Maybe bloodbath as an ult? It seems to be a skill that is good all game through (think of what will happen to nanny)
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PostSubject: Re: New Skill Discussion! no suggestion   Thu Feb 18, 2010 11:56 pm

do you think you might want to give fire wall a 200 dmg boost as it stands it does 1180 alot for a skill yes but you have to think


side step

bone wall kill a wall side step doom root is the only thing that could keep you in it and dosent it last like 5 6 seconds (IDK the amount)
but come to think of it fire wall banish doom root would be cute
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PostSubject: Re: New Skill Discussion! no suggestion   Fri Feb 19, 2010 12:18 am

ohh, forgot to edit that; but i believe it was increased some. We've been testing it; and it works reasonably well. the damage was boosted to around... 1800? 2000? not sure... Im thinking of making it shorter total duration, but very high damage.

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PostSubject: Re: New Skill Discussion! no suggestion   Fri Feb 19, 2010 12:20 am

im glad then it may become my fav skill
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PostSubject: Re: New Skill Discussion! no suggestion   Fri Feb 19, 2010 12:32 am

it just becomes closer to fs the shorter the duration becomes :/
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PostSubject: Re: New Skill Discussion! no suggestion   Tue Mar 02, 2010 4:31 am

Okay these look so cool finally a nearly full poison theme build

PN
SS
PS
Who Cares

For the new dont hit me Passive Arthas
Frenzy
Taunt
BB
Rez
At least thats what comes to my mind.

Not to mention Cyclone could combo so well with firewall (maybe) and possibly some of the other passive Flame Strike. My question is does this silence as its pulling them in? My only concern is it might take the spot light off an already under used Demon Storm. Does this ability suck in Magic Immuned units?

Scream would be like something I used with a slowing type skill possibly with nova or some other creep clearing skill as a 1-2 punch on the wave or enemy heroes and their waves.

Am I like way off topic here?
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PostSubject: Re: New Skill Discussion! no suggestion   Tue Mar 02, 2010 10:48 am

For your poison build, i think parasite would make a better 3rd skill :p less poisony than PS, but has that DOT like the other two.

Cyclone (now named whirlpool) does pull magic immunes in, but doesnt damage them. The damage on this skill also remains pretty low (2000 at max level). This is a more pvp based skill though; than a creeping skill; though it works for creeping also. Demon Storm also can throw magic immunes up into the air as a CC; but it doesnt damage them. As far as damage output goes though, demon storm out damages whirlpool in only 4 seconds; plus has about 3X the AoE.

And yeah, scream works really well as an off-farming skill. You cant farm with it alone, but with another skill, like frost nova, or something.. this will finish off a lot of creeps for you; while still being a viable mid and late game skill.

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PostSubject: Re: New Skill Discussion! no suggestion   Thu Mar 25, 2010 6:45 pm

blodbath is now 16% max proc chance. is this just gonna keep going down? o.O
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PostSubject: Re: New Skill Discussion! no suggestion   Thu Mar 25, 2010 10:53 pm

yes; until we determine it is balanced. On rare occasion I have seen this stack ~20 times on a unit in a few seconds. that is too powerful. 80X20X5=8000 damage. It only gets that high if multiple units are hitting you of course; but then the damage is amplified. so that 8000 damage is being dealt to multiple units. Stronger than atma beam; it is pure damage, through any form of resist. 20 is an extreme, end games with a lot of people hitting you. 10 is very easy to hit, and i am sure anyone who has used the skill has encountered 10 stacks at once... That is still 4000 pure damage; on multiple targets ><

I had first made this skill assuming for a 1v1 situation; but when you added a second player to the mix, this skill get 2X as good. If you take any skill and make it 2X as good; it will always be OP. Prolly lower it a couple more percentages and it should be fine.

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PostSubject: Re: New Skill Discussion! no suggestion   Thu Mar 25, 2010 11:21 pm

I think that firewall has to be nerfed in some way
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PostSubject: Re: New Skill Discussion! no suggestion   Thu Mar 25, 2010 11:25 pm

but you have to think about it this way- most games NEVER get to level 40, much less level 40 with more than 1 player. it is a pretty crazy skill, but i think that what would be better is lowerng its range. that would make it so that creeps that arent right next to the unit (or anywhere u think is ok) wouldnt get hit. most of the damage done by the skill is to creeps that arent even close to me, so that would make it a more physical skill, AND it would make it so that overall it would deal less damage. and NO! firewall is great, early levels it can pwn the shit out of someone standing in one place, but thats their fault for being stupid and not moving away. its got a width of like, what, 1 game meter?
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PostSubject: Re: New Skill Discussion! no suggestion   Fri Mar 26, 2010 12:07 am

He's probabally going to have to put a cap on its stacking. If its that powerful then it should be nerfed.
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PostSubject: Re: New Skill Discussion! no suggestion   Fri Mar 26, 2010 12:15 am

you dont need to be level 40 for a skill to be maxed; you only need to be level 23. MANY games will make it to 23. Personally, i can hit that by the 3rd duel in a good 2v2. The range is only like 300 or so. meaning, it will only hit melee guys anyway; unless you are melee attacking a ranged. Lowering the range wouldnt do ANYTHING, in retrospect. I mean, creeps attack slower, and it is pvp balance I am thinking about here. It isnt OP at creeping or bosses; it is OP at PvP.

Fire wall is kinda strong... However, because of how easily you can move out of it; I dont find it to be THAT strong... running through it at max level is only 225 damage. You have to spend like 5 second standing in it for it to be equal to nova; but nova hits in 1 second. Anyone who stands in the fire for 5 seconds has a problem... Roots is really the only thing that could do that, except for maybe death orb. It is mostly a creeping skill, and there is only about a 60% chance that you can kill a creep with it. Ranged creeps and flying creeps generally arent hit. This is one of those skills that takes skill to use; like bone prison.

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PostSubject: Re: New Skill Discussion! no suggestion   Sat Mar 27, 2010 11:52 am

A ranged unit never has to fight without this off cd. In a game verse soul thirst I ram around till I coul hex him on th firewall and I refusedto stand still unless he was in the wall. He ha no chance because the cd of firewall made it so I could kite for a few seconds then hex him again in afirewall. That is pretty un avoidable as a melée
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PostSubject: Re: New Skill Discussion! no suggestion   Sat Mar 27, 2010 6:35 pm

Hmm, though that is very skillful playing, isnt it? 2 skills used in combo to make 1 of them more potent. I changed the ticking from .5 to .7... It used to be 1.0 and the skill was awful; like, unusably bad, even for creeping. if .5 is too strong for pvp, and 1.0 is too bad for anything, then .7 has gotta be fair. We will test it with that and see what the verdict is. Just keep in mind that spell immunity, mana burns, mana flare, (avatar) and even good spell reduction counter this spell. Along with being ranged, or just having a good move speed; or having high HP. Unlike most nukes, which are weak to the same things, this one can easily be avoided unless the caster picks extra skills to ensure its potency. when you get the new edit, test it a few times without skills that enhance its power. It should be `average-above average` given those conditions (really hard to use right). not amazing, but something you would still consider picking if you didnt have a skill build based around it.

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