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 Flasher in the Wind

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PostSubject: Flasher in the Wind   Fri Sep 04, 2015 2:11 pm

A flash heal build. Bare with me folks because I haven't settled on a hero for this build yet.
Candidates (Prince of light, Naix, Storm Panda, Chaos Knight, etc... ) more leaning towards an intelligence hero due to the insane amount of mana needed to run.

The Build
Tentacles
Hex or Sonic Boom or Stun Field
Flash Heal
Any Innate
Demon Storm (Demon Spawn is also pretty nice)

Builds pretty basic main level tentacles to a level 6 stopping pointing. Put about a point in your defensive for channel disruption and off level flash heal. When you stop main leveling tentacles start main leveling flash heal for that insanely op fast healing power.

The strategy is pretty easy for the most part.
Hide behind tents in duels, hex and attack your opponent. Toss them in the air and flash heal a huge chunk of your life or allies life back. Early game (prior to them getting spell reduction) you might use demon storm to weaken them before they can get to you.

Special Tricks
Wind walk away creating distance between you and your opponent flash heal a huge chunk of your life back before they can get to you.

HP manipulation by dropping an item that gives a huge chunk of life you can heal faster and spend much less mana doing so. Also works well with potions feeling oom? Drop your mana items use potion and viola nearly full mana. Beware this can be a dangerous strategy.

Weaknesses
Mana Denial (Vortex and Mana Burn)
Armor Denial + a disable (stacking armor comes at the cost of mana supply)
Mana Flare
Stuns, stuns and more stuns...
Possibly avatar however you're not to reliant on spells casting the enemy. Simply put tents still hurt and demon storm can toss them in the air so you can heal so...



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PostSubject: Re: Flasher in the Wind   Fri Sep 04, 2015 5:42 pm

I used this build on chaos knight, years back. The only difference was my ultimate, I used whirlpool. At max level, it is like a 10 second disable, allowing for pretty much a full heal. Hex was my misc. It really did not do good early game, or even mid game. I struggled to keep up in levels, but managed to win a few duels mid game. The power of it is late game though, with immortals shield, you dont even need to kite to heal; you can just heal while they attack you.

I will say, that abusing the HP and mana bug is a dick move. It is a wc3 game mechanic; not a whole lot can be done about it; but it is still a dick move. The only way I can think of to fix it, would be to move any dropped items to base; but that would make things like sharing AMS potions difficult and newbie allies would likely grab them, thinking it is a gift from the gods. I would rather the abuse just not be used.

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PostSubject: Re: Flasher in the Wind   Fri Sep 04, 2015 7:58 pm

Whirlpool is also good and another good ability most might not think of is death orb. Death orb is easily countered but generally most people run from it until they're able to counter it. Which creates more then enough room for you to heal. The only problem with actual stuns is I some how feel I'm wasting them when using them to heal instead of say killing you. What I like about demon storm is it gives me the added early game farming power and the utility of a nice time out to heal up or to set up traps.

How are potions a dick move exactly? You take great risk of your items being stolen or destroyed. Maybe they're a little OP in 1 vs 1 when combined with a stun or something but you would need fast reactions or your opponent being really out of position of doing anything about it. Literally one unlucky lag spike and you're done for. I mean the only time I really use them is to give me more time to farm on the field, to recover for another lap of field player killing, or to recover from a risky early boss attempt. Very rarely do I ever see them being abused to hell in duels. Simply put there are too many ways to easily slam the door shut on that option.
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PostSubject: Re: Flasher in the Wind   Fri Sep 04, 2015 8:38 pm

Yeah, it is only in duels, generally in a 1v1, that i consider it a dick move. If there is another player, and you are able to disable both of them to abuse the game mechanic; well, go for it; the opponent is stupid for allowing themselves to be disabled at the same time. However, in a 1v1, you can use an ice staff, drop immortals shoulders, use terrap, and be at full life and mana. This is a dick move.

What you do to creep and such is fine; especially if you are using potions to creep for longer; you need all the help you can get with that strat. It is the 1v1 situation where I consider it to be a "dick move". It is the only situation where I would destroy someone else's item. My motto has always been "if you can do it in the game, then you are allowed to do it." this is the single thing that pisses me off beyond all that. Gank me at the fire boss and steal my essence, fine; that is my problem. Don't drop an item and heal in a duel!

/end rant

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PostSubject: Re: Flasher in the Wind   Sat Sep 05, 2015 11:25 pm

Yea it is a bit of a dick move in 1 v 1 specially if your opponent is melee.
T-1 Frost Staff ------> T-1 Lightning Shield proceed to destroy their items
Invis to create space ------> Gem or Eternal Set upgrade later. If they're still able to create space you do the same thing and abuse your heal as a fuck you to them.
Frost Shield -------> Immortals Gloves
Limiting you down to a 3 item core 1 really because you know... Auroric and Weapon are almost always a must have
Limiting you on armor while the basterds stacking it like crazy mother fucker... (^-^) GG WP

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PostSubject: Re: Flasher in the Wind   Sun Sep 06, 2015 12:17 pm

Not sure I ever posted it, but aurpric was needed last year, the auras were all nerfed. This bring me to wonder about the importance of staff of the death bringer on str. It was buffed, so comparatively super buffed. If you can do without brilliance, you don't need a weapon or auroric on str, and can't get evasion easily. I feel strength has the most options with items. Just a random thought.

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PostSubject: Re: Flasher in the Wind   Sun Sep 06, 2015 2:09 pm

Yea staff of the death bringers 30% is amazing but the thing is strength heroes desperately need move speed. In order to match the important stats auroric gives you would need to spend 3 item slots.

Staff of Death
Staff of Wargod
Element Gauntlet of choice

Whats ironic is they're almost the exact same price as Auroic and give considerably more damage and attack speed. However inventory space does play a role in the end game plan.
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PostSubject: Re: Flasher in the Wind   Sun Sep 06, 2015 5:07 pm

Staff of the war god adds 40% movement speed, right? a 5/40 aura. 40% MS on a 350 base is 140 MS, bringing your MS to 490; only 32 short of the max. I think that when it comes down to it, that 30 MS can be easily outdone with an item which grants 250+ strength. the only situation where you need more than that MS is if you are playing against a ranged hero with a slow that is more potent than ice orb.

In unlimited weapons mode, the swords give 60% endurance also; if really needed. (Though I avoid weapons on str).

I think when you get down to "best in slot" ect, yeah, auroric may be needed at some point; and eventually boots. For a progressive game though, that isnt based on maxxing out end game, i think being able to build into more items, and not needing to rely on a 60k item can mean a lot. Usually, I try not to get it on strength, unless I really need the movespeed. Investing that 60k on stat tomes instead is gonna be worth a LOT more in the end; if you dont need the movement speed. The only problem is that without auroric, you pretty much NEED an immortals shield (to balance auroric devotion aura). Strength has problems with armor.

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PostSubject: Re: Flasher in the Wind   Wed Sep 09, 2015 2:13 am

This is quite a tough support build in my opinion, especially when you are using a single-target healing spell, so it always come down with decisions whether you want to heal yourself or allies. It's pretty trick as well.

I do recommend to switch Tentacle over Lava spawns. It allows you to customizes your build even higher, such as prevent Stormbolt + Frozen orb combos, more damage against Avatar (Range hero), and faster farming with extra explosive damages at the end.

If it possible, try to set-up your items with eternal staff, which can be build into immortal shoulder later on (Omega staff). This allows you to counters mana vortex with high-value mana regeneration.

Mana flare shouldn't be a problem against this build, as long you are out of range against mana flare. You're good to go.

Glorn2 wrote:
Strength has problems with armor.

The only problem where strength heroes did not get enough armors because many players tend to build a large of hitpoint by stacking out strengths. (Strength heroes based). Players also often skipped mid-game items, such as Frozen shield, Poison shield, and Fire shield; over even any shield items.

They provide standard magic resistance + damage reduction, and decent amount of armors. Plus giving the fact that Poison shield work on all builds (Auto-attacks in pvp).
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PostSubject: Re: Flasher in the Wind   Wed Sep 09, 2015 7:20 am

Who plays to support a team though? Flash heal can help support a bit (In the same way that holy light can support) and tornado is a great "team" skill. It reduces damage taken by your entire team, and makes enemies easier to kill.

Lava spawns can be 1 shot with an AoE skill (Much worse off in a team game, or against most builds), and are only faster farming if you are using bombs. They will reduce damage from frozen orb though; if you want to base your build on taking less damage from a single ability.

Do not setup your items with immortals staff unless you have mana shield or terraptus. To get a staff, especially non-elemental, on a caster build which needs late game auto-attack DPS to maintain, is silly. Get a weapon which increases your DPS, to increase your farm. Immortals shoulders could only be useful against a high level vortex. And since late game, flash heal is your only skill worth casting, you may get enough regen without them. Why use the worst weapon in the game; just in case an enemy has an unused skill?

And "shield time" a 60k item, is not considered "mid game" "mid game" ranges from about level 18-32. If you have a shield before level 32, it is because you are rushing it, possibly for a build-enabling reason. At that time, you'd might as well get a prismatic shield, and start building towards immortals shield.

Strength DOES have an armor problem, because few strength items offer armor at all. This is pretty intentional, because of all the HP they have. People use those items because it gives them survival through HP, and great damage. It makes them weaker in PvP though, due to the lack of damage reduction from physical attacks.

So much you new players need to learn ><

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PostSubject: Re: Flasher in the Wind   Wed Sep 09, 2015 9:31 am

Lavas are not bad idea honestly I was thinking wolves when vs possible frozen orb builds. Luckily most frozen orb builds completely tip their hand by 3 hero picks (Priest, Paladin, Yiff_Fox) no joke literally every single time its always those heroes. However in general tents farm faster (in comparison their level 1 has twice the damage as lavas and crit and by tier 2 they have 3x the damage as lavas) and have spell immunity (not completely imo; death pulse, seed of corruption, land mine, face of the void, and of course mana vortex damage them).

Actually I did consider the Eternal Staff on agility because I felt they could run it the easiest. In general they're not too starved on attack speed rushing the item and it gives a nice little bulk as well. With like 2 minor stat items prior say (assassins garb + regalia) with a pair of boots you could just staff rush and transition into 2 items afterwards (cloak of the fox + mastery ring). Not a bad overal core really. Plus you could always sell eternal staff later if another item is needed in its place. On the other classes strength and intelligence I feel this is not the best build unfortunately.
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PostSubject: Re: Flasher in the Wind   Wed Sep 09, 2015 7:19 pm

Eternal staff though? A tier 2 staff offers great mana, and better farming potential. A light staff for instance; KILLER FARMING! If you need mana on agi, it is about 8X better to get a signet of the wind god, and grab that 40% slow (which lasts for like 5 seconds). get a few attacks off before WWing away to flash heal.

With flash heal, mana regen is about 60X as important as mana value. On agility with killer armor, spell damage reduction is your priority (which can come from a shield). The higher your armor, the better your flash heal is. Grabbing a staff is a "bleh" idea. Really, I wouldnt even go for an elemental shield. Immortals shield, after a prismatic shield. Taken no damage from anything, and fully heal in 10 seconds of casting. You really dont even need some "disable them while I heal" tatic. With an immortals shield, if they have less than 3000 attack damage, you will heal faster than they can damage you. With a ringwalk to flee and get 5 casts off, you are gaining more than you are losing.

Unless it is a team game, there is no point to base your build around flash heal. To make any decisions based around the use of flash heal is silly. Play a killer game on a killer build, and use flash heal as a backup. That is how you overcome any counter someone may throw at you. Dont ruin an agility build with a rushed omega staff; or ruin a strength build with a rushed shield.

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PostSubject: Re: Flasher in the Wind   Thu Sep 10, 2015 12:51 am

Lightning staff farming can be awesome but only when gotten super early. Luckily he is the weakest boss by far ^-^ . All you really need is purge and ams and with the likes of tents and demon spawn he goes down quick. With the right items you could probably solo him by level 13 if you catch your enemy out of position. More then likely they think you're effin crazy for bossing so early and will probably let you do it thinking you're wasting your time.

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PostSubject: Re: Flasher in the Wind   Thu Sep 10, 2015 6:43 am

I think in team games, with a strat like this on agility (or any agility/str build with no powerful mid game), you could do amazingly well. You know, those builds where you 5 point (insert offensive here) but do not use ele mastery or the likes as a farmer afterwards. Staff chain light is dicknuts strong, and in pvp it is very worth casting as well.

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PostSubject: Re: Flasher in the Wind   Thu Sep 10, 2015 2:22 pm

Glorn2 wrote:
Eternal staff though?  A tier 2 staff offers great mana, and better farming potential.  A light staff for instance; KILLER FARMING!  If you need mana on agi, it is about 8X better to get a signet of the wind god, and grab that 40% slow (which lasts for like 5 seconds).  get a few attacks off before WWing away to flash heal.

It is true that Eternal Staff is not as good as most mid-late game items, but it provide a decent amount of hitpoint, damage and mana against most match-up. I had a hard time against most advance ganking builds and as far as i know, this generation is all about being aggressive and ending game early as much as possible.

Here are some of the most advance ganking build that i had problem so far.

1) Lava, Hex, Mana Burn, Wrath of Hell.
2) Corruption Seed, Sonic Boom, Mana Burn, Illusion Ultimate.
3) Storm Bolt, Water element, Parasite, Weak Constitution.
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PostSubject: Re: Flasher in the Wind   Thu Sep 10, 2015 6:55 pm

None of those builds seem like a great ganking build, other than maybe parasite at best. What even happened to the simple banish+silent night? Banish+nova? WW+dragon punch?

My favorite ganking build is: Pain Archon, Dragon Punch, Hex (1 pt), Consume, Whirlpool. Main level consume, 1 pt whirl until you have the mana to support it. get WW and an ice staff for a 20+ second disable that will leave you opponent with absolutely no mana... or HP...

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PostSubject: Re: Flasher in the Wind   Thu Sep 10, 2015 7:23 pm

Rofl I don't think anyone really ganks in 1v1's. Those games are more about hardcore ricing fest. Whoever has the best duel build (builds that can over come AMS +HP potions) generally wins.

In pubs builds... Best counter ever to gank builds is the idiot lot of allies you're stuck with. Nothing kills a gank build harder then being forced out of position of the spawns closer to the enemy or being level starved by your moronic allies. Not to say its not possible to win with a gank build but lord knows its 10x easier just being an aoe lord and getting to the bosses faster.
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PostSubject: Re: Flasher in the Wind   Fri Sep 11, 2015 12:54 pm

Glorn2 wrote:
None of those builds seem like a great ganking build, other than maybe parasite at best.  What even happened to the simple banish+silent night?  Banish+nova?  WW+dragon punch?

My favorite ganking build is:  Pain Archon, Dragon Punch, Hex (1 pt), Consume, Whirlpool.  Main level consume, 1 pt whirl until you have the mana to support it.  get WW and an ice staff for a 20+ second disable that will leave you opponent with absolutely no mana... or HP...

Banish + Silent Night/Nova are not that hard to counters based from my experiences. I usually run a build with at least disable + mana burn to counter ganks and other purposes; with mana burn, I don't have to waste my time getting Stone/Lighting orb against all Archon bosses and giving me more chances against early duels. (Except Weak Constitution + Nova) Where as W.C. amplify against almost all magic resistances.

As i mentioned early, some of these build are considered to be "advance" in a term where it has potential to reach late game. Unlike pure ganking build, you may have one of the best tools for ganking, but it doesn't have the "farming potential" toward late game; this would includes fail ganks and such.

Since all late game is depending dodges, damages, attack speeds, and disables. It best to have some farming tools a long the way, so just in case if your build get demolished between half of the game.



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PostSubject: Re: Flasher in the Wind   Sun Sep 13, 2015 1:35 pm

A strange part of me wishes the single target ultimates would be buffed as they often deal less damage then the aoe ultimates. Maybe something along the lines of a much shorter cool down so they could gank more often.

I suppose ganking late game hybrids are not so bad although personally I rather just fall back on being a support. Your job as a ganker is to disrupt the farming of the opposing team and to score as many kills as possible. Essentially if you're doing your job well you'll basically scare away from camps thus securing your team more experience. It really doesn't matter what the build is so long as you secure your team more experience then the opposing team that's all that really matters.

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