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 Disables Comparison

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Glorn2
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PostSubject: Disables Comparison   Sun Oct 06, 2013 2:57 pm

Just like my "Healing" Post, I think a lot of light can be shown on ratios for disables and such. I will start with the defensive house; as Divine is a hot topic right now:

Because I hate typing the same thing a million times; this will be the setup for all Skills:
(Please note, the ratios are kinda uhhh, not calculated with a calc, and may be a % or 2 off)
Divine:
(Rank) 1: (Duration) 3, (CD) 18, (Disable Time Ratio) 1:6/17% (Mana Cost) 130
(So for most skills it will look like this)
1: 3, 18, 1:6/17%, 130
15: 8.6, 25, 1:3/34%, 550

Thoughts: While divined, opponents have item evasion, and moving evasion (a min of 25% and 25%, for 37.5% chance to miss) while melee divined units have to actually catch and attack the units they are attacking; which requires a slow; or a heavy ~50% reduced additional damage due to chasing (Logical estimate) Opponents can also item WW (lower CD than divine) for the duration of divine, forcing a gem of truesight. Arguably one of the best single point skill, due to the instant cast time, and the ability to negate most channels and debuffs.

Hex:
1: 2, 18, 1:9/12%, 140
15: 6.6, 27.2, 1:4/24%, 700

Thoughts: Hex removes all evasion, including moving evasion. Hex also remove movement speed, and disables item use. Heroes have a full cast time for hex though; even though the hex happens instantly. This means that you spend a solid second of the hex duration doing nothing; unless you are an instant cast hero. Not suggested for agility.

Befuddle:
1: 2, 11.5, 1:6/17% ,90
15: 5.5, 15.7, 1:3/35% ,370

Thoughts: Befuddle starts with a low AoE of 300, but ends with 800. This is an AOE disable which makes targets unable to deal attack damage or cast spells. The disable time is very high; however befuddle does not affect movement speed or evasion, and can be countered through items. In a 1v1 situation, it is too easy to purge; however, as an AoE skill, it is intended for team play. A single player doesn't counter it, and it is better than hex. the cast is instant, though the full cast time takes affect.

Sonic Boom:
1: 4, 15, 1:4/23% , 100
15: 7, 16.4, 1:2.5/41% , 520

Thoughts: A great disable! All Knockbacks are. Lowish cast range; melee only for the most part; or anti melee. Opponents can use item WW, frozen staff, or whatever pleases them while being knocked back. They can also cast instant cast spells like divine, avatar... errr, prolly some others. As this is an AoE skill; it is very powerful in team games; but also does good work in a 1v1 situation.

Stun Field:
1: 1.6, 11, 1:7.5/14%, 110
15: 4.4, 15.6, 1:3.5/29%, 460

Thoughts: As an AoE stun, the downtime for this is pretty decent; the AoE scales from ~300 to ~600. The minor damage this adds is often overlooked; but damage is damage! Suggested for fast casting heroes only; so you arent wasting the short disable times. As a lower CD stun, it makes for a decent 1 point interrupt skill in team games where you fear channels.

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carefulibite
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PostSubject: Re: Disables Comparison   Mon Oct 07, 2013 1:50 am

Man I need sleep can't put my thoughts together properly right now. Any ways it would be nice to see what the disable length is at the last level. Also I think you forgot taunt in that mix might be a wait and see kind of thing. Also I think you forgot mind rot as well.

Sonic boom & Divine shield are probably going to be your most picked defensive abilities right now due to how well they work vs a wide variety of spell combinations. They work particularly well with few amount of skill points needed in them.

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PostSubject: Re: Disables Comparison   Mon Oct 07, 2013 3:55 pm

should 1 level 15 fs and stun feild cast with wc kill a level 15 ams?
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PostSubject: Re: Disables Comparison   Wed Oct 09, 2013 6:08 pm

AMS blocks spell damage irregardless of damage resistance/enhancement so probably not.
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PostSubject: Re: Disables Comparison   Fri Oct 11, 2013 8:22 pm

the disable length at last level is listed; read my uhhh, outline there again. the first number is their duration. I agree that divine will be the most used; as it is highly defensive. Hex is highly offensive, but until late game, offers little. Hex is also very much so biased towards int; unlike divine.

I rarely see sonic boom used; however, i often see it win. you can divine during sonic, so divine will win out of the two; along with WW, you can complete counter it. Would you suggest for the numbers on those two skills to be made a little less beefy? or do you feel (As I do) that they are just easy to use, and very "flavor of the month". As all of these skills have remained unchanged for about 2 years now, and this is the first I am hearing of them as being an "imba problem" Though, a minor 5% nerf with the title "NERFED" will deter anyone from using a skill. Really, a new patch with no update notes will completely change what is OP and worthless, even if nothing is changed.

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PostSubject: Re: Disables Comparison   Sat Oct 12, 2013 12:02 am

Divine could probably use a minor shave off on duration. 2 instead of 3 on the first level. 7.2 instead of 8.9 on the last. Nothing major.

Sonic Boom I'm not too sure about. My only issue if any with the skill is it often acted exactly like befuddle. They shared roughly the same cd, they were the same mana cost at one point, sonic boom duration was longer, and sonic boom worked vs magic immune. Besides that they were both generally countered by the exact same things. However befuddle is going to or was buffed recently so who knows maybe that tips the favor in befuddle direction.

^
^
^
Something I want to do as an lol laugh but would likely never pull off is combo sonic with an allied tornado toss pushing the opponent into an area where they will be stuck for the rest of the game. Too bad that would be next to impossible to pull off and require your opponent to be extremely retarded in their positioning. Hmm maybe force push will be needed to ensure that really bad position.
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PostSubject: Re: Disables Comparison   Sat Oct 12, 2013 6:03 pm

Ohh, I also forgot to mention, that I left out many "half disables" I consider a disable as "dealing damage while taking none". Taunt might be a good disable against a priest with 4 spells; however, against a dark elf with 3 passives; it isnt a disable. Same could be said for banish. If I have weak C and 4 spells while my opponent has no spells; the DPS during banish is insaneeee. However, If I auto attack, banish isnt much different than hibernate; which, no damage is done during; so it isnt a disable so much as a stall.

Honestly, I thought it would be an insanely cool thing to do an "EHP" comparison for Damage done, and damage prevented for each skill. I think in that most basic comparison; it would be really interesting to look at. Then comes into play levels, armor, damage, evasion, and all other variables. Then, more importantly, came the fact that only like 3-4 people play this game who would have any idea what the HOURS of information would mean. ...sad...

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