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 New edit of CHA (Need thoughts)

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Glorn2
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PostSubject: New edit of CHA (Need thoughts)   Sun Jul 22, 2012 11:50 am

Scream and Taunt share a CD
Change the Auto-Kick feature to kick players who are in base for 3 minutes straight
Team swap include red and green
First part of rag quest DC (Preload monsters)
Include step-by-step directions for newer players (longer intro)
Possible more emphesis on the premade shops

What I want:
List of the "worst" 5 heroes
List of the "Best" 3 heroes
List of the "worst" 5 abilities
List of the "best" 3 abilities

Other suggestions:
information to include on the loading screen
Tips (that are randomly displayed)
Things you may like to see added to the game (nothing mechanic-changing)

I am going to try to make the time to get started on this stuff. If anyone has any other bugs; major problems, things to add, ect; now is the time.

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PostSubject: Re: New edit of CHA (Need thoughts)   Sun Jul 22, 2012 3:13 pm

You have just made my day.The heroes themselves seem balanced if anything your gonna need minor tweaks.Randomloser might have more insight there.As far as skills go I think Beetles might need a rework to make them a bit easier to use.If you could change them to a normal summon or trigger them to spawn by getting a kill rather than spawning from corpses you could do total corpse clean up possibly reducing lag.Otherwise Faire fire could use a good buff to early and mid game.But those are the only things I can think of off the top of my head.

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PostSubject: Re: New edit of CHA (Need thoughts)   Sun Jul 22, 2012 9:08 pm

Frost Armor and Frost shield being based on the same spell is another bug.

Hard to think of the 5 worse maybe
Magic Barrage and Bash both stand out as skills I would never pick.
Barrage is simply out class by other spells I wouldn't say its terrible as its a spell that does damage but I can simply do better with just about any other spell particularly at the start of the game.

Bash % is so low and its stun is generally unnoticeable for most of the game maybe if it did some damage or something it would be better or perhaps tweak to occur more often for a lesser stun time I don't know. It just seems like a total waste of space for a 15 point dump skill.

Random tips seem too spaced out. Like level 15 I get a tip about tinting or zooming those are really more for the start of the game rather then the stage they're generating at. Maybe placing tips at a point where they are more useful would be for the best. Like if we're level 20 mention about elements as the players should be more then strong enough to attempt them at that point.



Last edited by carefulibite on Sun Jul 22, 2012 9:11 pm; edited 1 time in total
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PostSubject: Re: New edit of CHA (Need thoughts)   Sun Jul 22, 2012 9:11 pm

Are you also going to be making new skills and heroes to fill the remaining slots in the taverns and shops?

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PostSubject: Re: New edit of CHA (Need thoughts)   Sun Jul 22, 2012 10:34 pm

As you random the most; I must ask about barrage. Before I released the final edit; I had ninja-buffed it a little bit (prior to that, I felt it was one of the worst farmers) I forget what I did to buff it; and have never been fond of the skill as long as the game has been out; so cannot say anything about it. What do you feel would make it more appealing as a skill; what makes it specifically weaker than say, frost fall?

Bash I can increase the base bash amount; so it isnt so weak early; the late game bash ratio is still very high on the skill; if you were to invest 15 points into it. I think it is about the same downtime ratio as hex (statistically). A small increase to the base would of course increase the late game potency of it as well.

I can attempt to space out some tips better; I think I can set some variables and junk to separate tips across the span of the game as you suggested.

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PostSubject: Re: New edit of CHA (Need thoughts)   Sun Jul 22, 2012 10:51 pm

What about new skills and heros ?

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PostSubject: Re: New edit of CHA (Need thoughts)   Sun Jul 22, 2012 10:59 pm

They are things I will consider adding; assuming there are balanced suggestions made for them. I will need to clean up a lot of trigger-clutter before I can add much content though; the game is ripping at the seams, in terms of how much data the map can hold.

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PostSubject: Re: New edit of CHA (Need thoughts)   Mon Jul 23, 2012 12:42 am

Okay that sounds good so I take it we should hold off on the suggestions until after you have made a cleaned up edit ?

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PostSubject: Re: New edit of CHA (Need thoughts)   Mon Jul 23, 2012 1:46 am

I just used barrage recently level dumping a full 15 points in it I guess its alright as is. Bash just has no effect worth while early I think a minor damage burst could be the ticket it needs early game. Say level 15 a 10% chance to deal 400 damage and stun. I found out something interesting while playing custom hero survival over a month ago and that is skills like frost arrow, flame arrows, black arrow work on melee heroes as well as ranged. Perhaps you could work beetles around black arrow instead and see how that works. I'm not sure if hoihoi did anything custom but I'm pretty sure he didn't. The only problem is range black arrow takes over orbs while on melee if you keep it toggled off it works with orbs and summons free of charge.
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PostSubject: Re: New edit of CHA (Need thoughts)   Mon Jul 23, 2012 2:01 am

Sounds good to me.

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PostSubject: Re: New edit of CHA (Need thoughts)   Mon Jul 23, 2012 7:17 am

The reason I want to avoid +damage on bash is because if it can be used as a potential farmer; or off farmer, then it really does become OP. While it is weak early; as I pointed out above; late game it is still about equal to a manaless hex. Imagine if hex helped you farm.

While I agree that bash is weak and underused, I want to avoid giving it farming potential; so it remains as a "Do I really want to give up a lot of farming, for a very strong, passive pvp skill?" choice.

I will look at orb of darkness and see what I can do with it. If it+beetles seems improbable; I will attempt to find a way to use one of the "arrow" attacks as a new skill. It was always the "orb problem" that kept me from using these skills in the past.

Epic claimed that locust was the most OP skill; but never explained at all why. Does anyone agree or have his reasoning why?

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PostSubject: Re: New edit of CHA (Need thoughts)   Mon Jul 23, 2012 10:51 am

****I had a complete list of skill changes going; then chrome crashed and I lost it all; I may be missing a few.
SKILLS
taunt: No longer shared a CD with scream
Scream: Mana cost reduced 5xLevel
Sleep: Mana cost reduced slightly
Soundwave: Mana cost reduced slightly
Rally Cry: Skill selection tooltip updated to reflect its true duration.
Watery Defender: Mana cost decreased greatly; tooltip updated to reflect its true duration.
Meteor Storm: Cast range increased
Siphon Life: Mana cost reduced greatly
Dread Ritual: Cooldown Decreased with level
Carrion Beetles: Mana cost Reduced greatly
Gift of the Magi: Mana regained per level increased
Lava Spawn: Mana cost per level reduced slightly
Poison Nova: CD reduced
Battle Raor: Armor increased per level
Blaze: Cooldown decreased with level
BloodBath: Damage changed to Pure Damage from Spell Damage.
Endurance Aura: Movement Speed boost has been decreased.
Face The Void: Mana cost Reduced Slightly
Faerie Fire: Cast range increased, mana cost decreased
Immolation: Casting Cost increased, mana drained per second decreased; AoE increased.
Land Mines: Mana cost reduced slightly
Mana Burn: Mana cost reduced per level, slightly
Bash: Increased the base to .23 (from 0) but reduced the increase per level from .8 to .7. This brings the total to 1.28 (from 1.20)
Spoiler:
 

***Random, I looked at frost armor and Frozen shield; and they do no appear to be based on the same skill; 1 is based on channel; the other on that actual skill.

NOOB FRIENDLY CHANGES
Tips:
- I forgot to change the size of an array; so CHA had been missing out on 12 of my lovely tips.
- General tips have been more spread apart in their appearance.
- Time-specific tips are being added; these tips cannot be turned off and will pop up *randomly* based on how long the game has been going on. Early game tips will pop up early game; mid game tips mid game, and late game tips later.

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PostSubject: Re: New edit of CHA (Need thoughts)   Mon Jul 23, 2012 12:48 pm

That's weird well what happens is if you use one it cancels the other. I'm not sure if Poison Nova CD reduction is much of a buff does the damage stack at all? Currently its duration is at least double cool down time. Epic thought locust is op I heard him saying it was underpowered like a couple of days ago.

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PostSubject: Re: New edit of CHA (Need thoughts)   Mon Jul 23, 2012 3:42 pm

Let me know when you have a testable edit I can put it on wrathbot and set it to priv host only so we can use it for clan beta test.

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PostSubject: Re: New edit of CHA (Need thoughts)   Mon Jul 23, 2012 4:08 pm

got one; i do i do.

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PostSubject: Re: New edit of CHA (Need thoughts)   Mon Jul 23, 2012 5:17 pm

I will check my email otherwise if you haven't sent it yet go for it.

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PostSubject: Re: New edit of CHA (Need thoughts)   Mon Jul 23, 2012 10:43 pm

I didn't claim locusts was overpowered, the opposite actually... I said it was terrible since you nerfed it... I'll put my list together probably tomorrow when I can see straight.
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PostSubject: Re: New edit of CHA (Need thoughts)   Tue Jul 24, 2012 10:42 pm

I always hear loaders talk about how it takes forever to get to their next level. I remember when I first started there were loaders all over the place so it really never took me too long to gain levels. However today I always see players stuck at a low level for weeks at a time. Like I see a level 8 player 3 weeks later they're still level 8. You think we need more XP bonuses in the game?
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PostSubject: Re: New edit of CHA (Need thoughts)   Wed Jul 25, 2012 5:19 pm

I would really like to create a system like I eventually upgraded to in SC2; in fact, I will look into it and see if I can copy a similar leveling system into WC3.

What it was:
Rather than every level being set EXP (A lot of work on me) I have a very extensive formula created that allowed for endless levels; however the scaling of the levels made it very difficult for a player to progress past a certain point. The major problem here is that players can chose not to save a code; where in sc2, it was always saved no matter what. I could however; with a slightly toned down version; create a similar system (In sc2, you could lose 2 levels from losing a single game). that almost always offers more reward than would be lost. Mainly, it would allow me to set unlimited levels; therefore increasing the rate of leveling to allow players to feel more accomplished. However, I will not be adding more unlockable heroes or anything of that nature. And if/when I do this, the "level buff" will only show for every 5 levels; rather than every level. This will allow me to save a lot of map space with the creation of possibly 100+ levels.

As I have mentioned to many people; I am re-creating CHA from scratch.. again, to save on a lot of map space, trigger run times, and overall increase performance while allowing more content to be added to the map. My goal is to have it playable by my wedding (September 1st)

Until then, dont expect any more updates on the current edit (except for the one I am yet to send to wrath, with a few very minor changes)

Skill suggestions are being taken at this time, along with hero suggestions. I will also be taking all other suggestions of course; this includes the changing around of additional modes (koth, ctf, ect) and everything in between.

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PostSubject: Re: New edit of CHA (Need thoughts)   Wed Jul 25, 2012 5:36 pm

I will bump the hero and skill suggestion threads but for now I think that there needs to be a glad mode needs a total remake.

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PostSubject: Re: New edit of CHA (Need thoughts)   Wed Jul 25, 2012 5:57 pm

well; what would you like to see in this complete remake of glad mode? I am considering some unique terrain for it; and allowing it to be an arena in 4v4 or larger games. as a large arena 1v1v1v1v1v1v1 ect game; I am not positive how I can improve it.

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PostSubject: Re: New edit of CHA (Need thoughts)   Thu Jul 26, 2012 3:07 pm

We're moving back to WC3? Good lord ... I would suggest that if it is at all possible to have as a selectable mode the stat system in SC2 as an option ... it seemed more fluid and would be fun if it could be implemented in this "new" version. The leveling system in SC2 also made more sense I thought, after a bit I didn't give a shit about it (probably because I couldn't choose what to save lol). Really, where the stat systems was going I think has a bunch of potential.
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PostSubject: Re: New edit of CHA (Need thoughts)   Fri Jul 27, 2012 8:05 am

The stat system and leveling system in sc2 were just a few of the things SC2 can do, that wc3 cannot. I agree that both of them are far superior to anything wc3 CHA has. The leveling system was only possible because sc2 allowed the saving of bank files to a players hard drive; automatically. With wc3, those long, irritating codes are just encoded numbers that fill in the blanks and set variables.

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PostSubject: Re: New edit of CHA (Need thoughts)   Wed Aug 01, 2012 3:21 pm

I have to ask, why this backtracking? The new patch in SC2 came out just now—you talked about that at length. I've played WC3 in the meantime and at most a dozen or so players, "named" players, are on at any one time. Not even a dozen really, so, I guess what I'm asking is what do you think went wrong in the new edits?
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PostSubject: Re: New edit of CHA (Need thoughts)   Wed Aug 01, 2012 4:10 pm

do you mean "what went wrong with the SC2 edits"? I wouldn't say that anything went wrong; so much as a complete lack of a community over there. There is barely a custom game community, let alone a CHA community. All chat channels combined have 40 players in them; all but 3 are normally AFK.

I loved SC2 CHA, I enjoy working with the editor over there, and I believe a much better game can be made on that platform. WC3 CHA right now though; has a small community that wants some updates. WC3 as a whole; has a larger custom game community than SC2 does. I am sure I will be flopping back to SC2 this winter; if the 1.5 patch managed to bring custom gamers back.

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