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 Frozen Orb

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Niggonometry
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PostSubject: Frozen Orb   Wed Apr 27, 2011 7:27 pm

So I have played a few games with frozen orb and a few against it and heard a lot of complaining about it. Until today, I thought that while the skill was very good it was not overpowered or broken even though it seemed strong for a misc. skill. I have seen it one shot heros with over 10k health and no spell resist due to weak constitution and still thought the skill was reasonable. I felt that it was not an overbearing skill because of the fact that the damage could be avoided (windwalk, avatar, shield, running away). However, today I played a game where the damage from frozen orb was unavoidable due to stuns and there was nothing i could do. I can't think of one skill that can do the same amount of damage that frozen orb does over the course of a stun lock that isn't some ultimate like mana explosion or the like. The skill farms like an offensive, it pvps like an offensive but it is a misc. skill. I cannot think of one way to win a 1v1 against a build with dragon punch, frozen orb, and death orb unless you are able to kill them through an avatar or maybe a vortex. I don't think there should be a build out there that cannot be countered through items and gameplay. Maybe I am missing something and there is no problem with frozen orb but it looks to be too powerful a skill to not be a offensive skill. Maybe if someone can show me a way to avoid it or name another skill from any house that can kill you between the time of a dragon punch and a death orb stun and argue and it should be a misc. skill then I will concede. Until then, I think something needs to be changed about the skill; my suggestion being to move it to the offensive house.
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PostSubject: Re: Frozen Orb   Wed Apr 27, 2011 8:01 pm

Well, to avoid death orb, get a ww cloak or avatar ring, and right before the orb hits you, cast it. The timing is semi-difficult, but anyone with half a brain should be able to do it. The ww is easier to time, as you have a smaller margin of error than the 1 second ava ring (Yes, supersonic ring is now 1 second of divine shield- with the intention of removing debuffs). This will offset most players for at least 1-2 duels.
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epicpowda11
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PostSubject: Re: Frozen Orb   Wed Apr 27, 2011 8:03 pm

Lol, he couldn't avoid death orb, I was running int archon and I'd hit with with orb before the stun on dragon punch wore off <3
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PostSubject: Re: Frozen Orb   Wed Apr 27, 2011 8:24 pm

Want to know the best trick to beating death orb? Get an illusion cloak. For some people it is out of the way on the item list; but everyone needs some agility and move speed.

the more targets an ice orb has, the less damage it deals. With a single illusion, the damage from ice orb is cut in half instantly. Against summons, the skill is pretty much useless. Any form of mana burn would work well against the posted build.

I have played against stun, ice orb, stun, about... 40 times... And I havent lost to it yet. Granted, I have used it a few times, and havent lost with it either.

really though.. BLAZE, with dragon and death is about 30% better, in my opinion. Blaze will farm better; and in terms of PVP, the damage output is pretty much the same; it is just harder to use properly. Works great as an anti-kite too.

I have gotten a lot of complaints about frozen orb though; and while I think a direct damage nerf is uncalled for; I will find another way to nerf it; minorly.... Maybe mana cost incease? lower range? higher cooldown?

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PostSubject: Re: Frozen Orb   Wed Apr 27, 2011 11:55 pm

mana cost increase would make it equivalent to magic barrage, in other words, useless. i believe the skill is perfectly balanced but if you had to do anything it would be to have it shoot less quickly. maybe by.. one shot/sec?
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PostSubject: Re: Frozen Orb   Thu Apr 28, 2011 4:11 am

I have a funny ass replay which will show that stormbolt and flare is easily defeatable
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PostSubject: Re: Frozen Orb   Thu Apr 28, 2011 12:31 pm

Good call with the illusion, I guess that was the only thing i didn't try and of course it is easy to avoid death orb except in the case like epic said where i am already stunned.
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PostSubject: Re: Frozen Orb   Thu Apr 28, 2011 1:21 pm

Also, a harder-to-obtain counter.. As he was a melee unit, you could have grabbed a rank 2 light shield. The spell block on it would counter his storm bolt. With a WW for the second half of the cooldown, he couldnt stun you with a single bolt. That is pretty expensive later game gear though; nothing you could rely on in a game with ganks; and he could then go a staff and use the staff spell to counter your shield. Still an option though.

As I posted in the updates though, I lowered the damage curve on frozen orb by a very small amount. Most of us feel as though this isnt needed; but most of us who feel that way think the skill sucks as is, so dont use it. A minor nerf should make everyone happy, right?

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PostSubject: Re: Frozen Orb   Thu Apr 28, 2011 5:44 pm

P.S. for anyone curious, 1 point flare and off leveled mana burn completely destroys any form of the disable/stun ice orb combo. Play aggressively with it and dont let them farm and its game over before 4th duel.
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PostSubject: Re: Frozen Orb   Fri Apr 29, 2011 10:07 am

ROFL FROZEN ORB SUCKS BALLS I CAN DO MORE DAMAGE WITH FIRE WARD AND IMPALE AT A CHEAPER COMBO COST TOO
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PostSubject: Re: Frozen Orb   Fri Apr 29, 2011 12:04 pm

Fire ward+impale would outlevel it hardcore. Though, taking the entire blast from frozen orb will not outdamage it, if they were equal levels. When you look at the cooldown and mana cost of frozen orb, and then try to combine it with another spell... It becomes so mana intensive that anything to counter it, even once, makes it GG. Outlevel your opponent just a little, and their orb cannot farm anymore.

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PostSubject: Re: Frozen Orb   Thu May 05, 2011 5:14 pm

heres my 2 cents about the new frozen orb in beta 3... imo it got nerfed a bit too much.

Heres what i think... 10 dmg nerf on each level for early level, so it is actually worse as an farming skill now, even with the 40dmg boost at later level, it will still get 10dmg than it was in beta 2. 50 x lvl mana each level, making it less viable for most heroes, and with the new shared exp system, it is pretty much impossible to outlevel creeps by 2 or 3, so it will be less useful for farming again.. 1 cast with storm bolt then it'll be gg cause ur out of mana. oh yes, with 50x mana per lvl mana flare screw it harder now.. >.>

i think glorny u can either restore its mana cost to what it was in beta 2, or just boost its dmg more in later level.
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PostSubject: Re: Frozen Orb   Fri May 06, 2011 12:30 am

Nope. Is what I say. There was much QQ, now enjoy the results.

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PostSubject: Re: Frozen Orb   Mon May 09, 2011 12:25 am

God it better not have been made useless. It was already weak enough once you hit midgame. Why must we idiot proof this game?
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PostSubject: Re: Frozen Orb   Mon May 09, 2011 1:37 am

It was recently discovered that 99% of CHA players are idiots. To them it is simply "proof".

Really though, the mana cost is the same as frost nova... and, well.. I can farm with frost nova... It is still usable, it just takes some tweaking of builds, and allows it to be more counterable.

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