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 Armor, Breakdown

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Glorn2
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PostSubject: Armor, Breakdown   Tue Dec 07, 2010 5:33 pm

Armor Basics:
As many people have learned by now, armor is essentially, a boost to your life. But what is that boost? Well, to be put simply:
1 Armor = 3% of max life (In custom hero arena)

Examples:
*All percentages are converted into real numbers
10,000 life with 100 armor. 10,000 + (10,000*3) = 40,000 RHP (Real Hit Points)
20,000 life with 50 armor. 20,000 + (20,000*1.5)= 50,000 RHP
10,000 life with 200 armor. 10,000 + (10,000*6) = 70,000 RHP
20,000 life with 100 armor. 20,000 + (20,000*3) = 80,000 RHP


Game Examples:
STR Hero: 10,000 HP with 10 armor.
- Called stupid.
- Has 13,000 RHP.
- 1 point of armor = 300 RHP
- 100 points of life = 130 RHP.

AGI Hero: 3000 HP with 100 armor.
- Called stupid.
- Has 9000 RHP.
- 1 point of armor = 60 RPH.
- 100 points of life = 300 RPH.

INT Hero: 5000 HP with 50 armor.
- Called balanced.
- Has 12,500 RHP.
- 1 point of armor = 150 RHP.
- 100 points of life = 175 RHP.

***EDIT***
I would just like to show the optimum for stats between the AGI and STR concepts above, because my int symbol reflects an actual int hero; who will have less than average STR and AGI.

Balanced Hero (average between the STR and AGI set ups)
6,500 HP with 55 armor
- Has 17225 RHP.
- 1 point of armor = 195 RHP.
- 100 points of life = 165 RHP.
*****End Edit*****

===============================================

Skills:

Unholy Aura VS Spiked Armor:
- Using either of these skills, you can assume that duels will be long. Lets use a clear cut minute, for easy math. If you would like to figure it out for a 30 second duel; cut it in half. 2 minutes? double it. If you are having trouble, please see a math tutor.

Unholy Aura:
84 HP/s max level
Spiked Armor:
64 Armor max level

- Unholy Aura grants a wonderful 5040 extra HP during a 60 second duel.
- Spiked Armor grants a wonderful 192% increased max HP.

Math:
100 armor:
Unholy Aura grants ~ (5,000*3)) 15,000 RHP

10,000 life:
Spiked armor grants ~ (10,000*1.92) 19,200 RHP.

Quote :
10,000 life with 100 armor. 10,000 + (10,000*3) = 40,000 RHP

==========================================

Why I bring this up?
- First of all, to educate people.
- Secondly, I see a lotttttt of people using unholy aura, while spiked armor is an abused little stepchild (except for maybe the 2 people of whom I explained how good spiked is to)
- Both skills are really good; and both conform to different playstyles. However... I see people using unholy aura for any playstyle. People getting unholy aura then rushing immortals boots. People using unholy aura on a strength hero. Lets do 1 last quest test on a very late game build concept:

30,000 HP, 200 armor.
Unholy Aura adds: 30,000 RHP
Spiked Armor adds: 57,600 RHP

It would take 400 armor for Unholy Aura to surpass Spiked Armor on a 30,000 HP unit. It would only take 17,000 HP for spiked armor to surpass Unholy Aura on a 200 armored unit.

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Pissonmyhands
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PostSubject: Re: Armor, Breakdown   Tue Dec 07, 2010 6:42 pm

unholy makes up for actual hp over time. spiked armor is only applicable when they are auto attacking and is not as flexible as unholy in terms of taking other kinds of damage (spell)
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PostSubject: Re: Armor, Breakdown   Tue Dec 07, 2010 7:16 pm

I be honest with you piss regneration dont mean dick against high burst damage. Sure if you survive it it might but not really. Regen is imba late and eh mediocre early and decent mid game. Almost all the heal skills are better then the auras I mean look at spike when combine with rejuve its cheaper then trying to stack pile the armor to make unholy uber imba.
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PostSubject: Re: Armor, Breakdown   Tue Dec 07, 2010 7:24 pm

well obviously skills that require mana and time to cast are going to be better than a similarly based passive...
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PostSubject: Re: Armor, Breakdown   Tue Dec 07, 2010 7:55 pm

ya i think the thing that isn't taken into account is the amount of damage spells do and how little armor helps against stuff like parasite.
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PostSubject: Re: Armor, Breakdown   Tue Dec 07, 2010 8:51 pm

and you can counter spells with anti-spell abilities; AMS potion, HP, HP potions, and of course, spell damage reduction.

What everyone complaining about spells is missing is... The person with spells has to invest many points into their spells in order to deal damage. If spells are a problem for you; you may make the choice to invest skill points into AMS, mana burn, consume, feedback, vortex, absorb mana, avatar...

An agility hero with a few points invested into the AMS skill has very very few weaknesses. A strength hero with tentacles maybe? Hell, get mana burn. Between WW ring and supersonic ring, you can get 3 mana burns off before they have a chance to cast at you.

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PostSubject: Re: Armor, Breakdown   Tue Dec 07, 2010 9:54 pm

thats like saying you can counter summons with anti summon abilities holy armor shield hardened skin evasion hp hp potions... give them spell immunity plz already too weak from all these no spell weaknesses. just because it has a counter, doesn't make an ability weak.
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PostSubject: Re: Armor, Breakdown   Tue Dec 07, 2010 10:05 pm

Quote :
I be honest with you piss regneration dont mean dick against high burst damage. Sure if you survive it it might but not really. Regen is imba late and eh mediocre early and decent mid game. Almost all the heal skills are better then the auras I mean look at spike when combine with rejuve its cheaper then trying to stack pile the armor to make unholy uber imba.

Actually, regen is great vs. burst damage. Why? Because in between their "bursts" common sense would dictate that you heal a substantial amount of health. If I burst 1000 damage every 10 seconds, and if you have 70 hp regen per second; that means in between each of my bursts you regen 700 hp (innately). Regen is not so good against 'constant' damage that is equal or above it, it "cancels" the regen. Burst damage however gives them a chance to regen your entire burst in between bursts.

Furthermore, in my opinion good regen builds are usually a little stronger early-mid game when you have less hp and damage. Although, many people do not realize how to play these properly hence they same weak early game. But when you properly stack regen with the innate ability, items and possibly unholy armour a lot of the times you can regen as much damage as their doing early and mid game. Piss may have a replay or two of my unholy builds doing this to him.

AND, playing unholy early game can be used in the exact opposite way than *stacking armour to make it imba* ... That is, if you use unholy well, you can shift focus away from armour and add it into things like damage/extra stats etc. The problem with rejuve on a whole is a lightning orb / mana steal / mana burn / vortex / abolish magic / gem of true sight etc. makes the skill useless. It is also an expensive skill mana wise that will drain you; unholy on the other hand is passive and runs constantly. It can not be dispelled, you dont have to interrupt auto attack to use it, no need to use Windwalk to get it off, takes no mana. You toss rejuve on a agi or str, now your dumping points into intel and mana instead of armour/agility and strength.

Another HUGE bonus for unholy is that it is an aura, so for team games your entire team gets use of it. In a 3v3, your team is collectively regaining 252 hp/s. As for rejuve, only one member can be healed at a time.

In my opinion, Unholy > Rejuve simply because unholy, although weaker is extremely hard to counter unless your already know they are going to use it. On the other hand, rejuve can be countered by the 2nd duel with a cheap item. And unlike frost armour or has a incredibly large cooldown.

------------------------------

Glorn, would you mind adding Hardened Skin to this, it is a skill I've been running lately with holy armour builds and seems to own fairly nicely, just curious to see how it would stack up next to spiked.
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PostSubject: Re: Armor, Breakdown   Wed Dec 08, 2010 1:20 am

Glorn when you epicpost stuff like this do you do the fancy formatting as you go or do you get the whole thing typed up then go back and format appropriately. Also how many times would you say you give mathematic explanations to the Asian? Finally how often do you dictate your posts to smitty?
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PostSubject: Re: Armor, Breakdown   Wed Dec 08, 2010 1:44 am

Lmao, I invent a format as a go; the more important I find a topic to be, the more things I click to make it bigger and brighter. I dont give mathematical answers to the asian; she doesnt understand math. I dictate few posts to smitty; like the asian, his understanding is lower than hers.

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PostSubject: Re: Armor, Breakdown   Wed Dec 08, 2010 2:33 am

No, I see the Smitty thing going like...

HEY BRIAN This is how you actually type up a post. See this dumbass? This is how you underline. Now try it. NO NO NO YOUR DOING IT WRONG... What do you mean what's the meaning of optimum? GO MAKE ME A SANDWICH BITCH.
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PostSubject: Re: Armor, Breakdown   Wed Dec 08, 2010 4:10 pm

roflstomp true i do have a few replays but those are probably the reason why i'm biased in favor of unholy aura
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PostSubject: Re: Armor, Breakdown   Wed Dec 08, 2010 5:14 pm

Glorn2 wrote:
Lmao, I invent a format as a go; the more important I find a topic to be, the more things I click to make it bigger and brighter. I dont give mathematical answers to the asian; she doesnt understand math. I dictate few posts to smitty; like the asian, his understanding is lower than hers.

doesn't stop you from giving them to us...
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PostSubject: Re: Armor, Breakdown   Wed Dec 08, 2010 8:14 pm

If I leave anything out from you guys, someone decides to bitch about it!

"You didnt tell me bombs have 500 AoE!"
"It says it right on them..."
"Yeah, but you didnt tell me!"

"you should tell me the cooldown on all abilities"
"you need to put the cast range on all abilities"
"You should put the max DPS on all abilities"
"You should use custom icons for all abilities"
"The flavor text of this ability is white"
"Where iz my shoes, and why kant i ties 'um?"

If 1 person gets the math; then I have done my job.
And for the 6000 people who will ask me in the next month "why is everyone getting spiked armor? unholy is better" I can simply tell them to stfu and gtfo.

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PostSubject: Re: Armor, Breakdown   Wed Dec 08, 2010 8:19 pm

you know you could just avoid all of this by creating a single skill that provided an armor aura to teammates, bonus regen to the caster, soul burn that is cast on any melee attacker, and stun bolt on any ranged attacker.
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PostSubject: Re: Armor, Breakdown   Wed Dec 08, 2010 8:21 pm

so basically you want battle roar and soul burn and stun field.
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PostSubject: Re: Armor, Breakdown   Wed Dec 08, 2010 9:56 pm

Sarcasm is lost on the clueless.
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PostSubject: Re: Armor, Breakdown   Wed Dec 08, 2010 10:06 pm

verti89 wrote:
you know you could just avoid all of this by creating a single skill that provided an armor aura to teammates, bonus regen to the caster, soul burn that is cast on any melee attacker, and stun bolt on any ranged attacker.

Hmm, I would have to use a Naruto icon, Bleach name, and DBZ spell animation, if i ever hoped to pull all of those abilties off on 1 skill.

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PostSubject: Re: Armor, Breakdown   Wed Dec 08, 2010 10:12 pm

only if the skill's spell damage was over 9000
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PostSubject: Re: Armor, Breakdown   Wed Dec 08, 2010 10:28 pm

There you go still doesnt compare to the shark with the lazer on his head that back flips and pees on them while standing on his tail fin. Going back on topic Evasion kicks both spike and unholy ass hands down.
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PostSubject: Re: Armor, Breakdown   Wed Dec 08, 2010 10:40 pm

Evasion is 50% evasion. It doubles whatever your RHP is. In some situation, it is worse than either of the others; but again, that is situations of low RHP. But that is why evasion is good; rather than affecting your actual HP to add to your RHP; it simply doubles your RHP; which is already buffed by HP and armor.

Where you can start to argue is when you look at 35% evasion items; and then you would have to compare the cost of that item to the cost of a shield, and compare the RHP of 35% evasion to the RHP of what a shield might offer you in terms of armor. then you have to weigh the damage differences between the items, and all of that good stuff that takes the entire argument out of itself.

but that is why I left evasion out of the argument; IMO, it is far better late game than any of the either skills; skill vs skill vs skill. however the other two skills offer much more early and mid game than evasion; which is why I dont pick evasion; I play early-mid game builds.

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