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 The Territo Issue

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epicpowda11
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PostSubject: The Territo Issue   Sun Dec 05, 2010 7:43 pm

Alright, so as some of you know and don't know. The other afternoon me and Yeti decided to remove Territo from the clan. You may or may not agree with our judgement on this issue, as now I took notice that we have lost a prominent member because of our actions. But nonetheless, this post will hopefully clear up the why we did what we did, how it was done and why at this time it will not be undone.

As many of you know, we don't emit members purely on the base of either maturity or skill. If this was the case many players whom are good at the game but have the maturity of a thumb tack are not in. Likewise, we give some members that are not up to our "skill par" if you will a chance because they show an incredible amount of maturity, and we feel they would fit quite well within our social group. Yes, our "social group" is something that we take hugely into consideration. A lot of us are not here solely to just play the game, many of us enjoy playing with our fellow clan, enjoy having conversations that do not revolve around the newest build. Many times conversations go from the game -> religion -> politics -> science -> psychological theory. Hell me and Glorn have even made somewhat logical debates on subjects of why something could be divisible by "0". That being said, Clan Chao is much more than just a collective body for playing a Warcraft map, it is a community of people.

Territo's re-invitation was put out in my ignorance of how he came to quit was really put into play. I had previously not read the message that was fanned out to most of our administration (apparently I wasn't a part of the hate mail; lucky me). When I extended out the second chance, I had not realized at depth what was actually said to most of us, and the level of immaturity that i represented.

Quote :
SO TELL THE FUCKEN GAY HERD I SAY TO GO FUCK THEMSELVES!
Quote :
AND IF U THINK THATS A LOAD OF BULL, ITS NOT! THE ONLY LOAD OF BULL HERE IS UR FUCKEN CLAN!
Quote :
SO GO FUCK URSELFS! ALL OF YOU!!!!!

A few quotes that were fanned out amongst our administration shortly before Territo quit our clan the first time. Remember these quotes are taken slightly out of context, nevertheless, they still carry the same meaning. You can disagree with me if you will, but these sort's of comments in my eyes really don't deem being part of a community, being mature, etc. I have a fairly high tolerance for "kidish" type things, spelling everything in acronyms, being silly from time to time, making stupid and continuous comments that I really don't feel like hearing. However, the line has to be drawn somewhere. And if this message would have been brought to me prior to Territo being re-invited, that event never would have taken place.

Sure many of us defiantly have our narcissistic traits, we may not be extremely accepting of people who run against the grain of our clique, but whatever social group ever is. Furthermore, one that person has usually gone through a few weeks and settled in we've almost always been more than excepting of that person's quirks. Many of us came from pubs, realized how bad we were when getting here and than after a short .. hazing period, or growth period if you will became fully functioning members within the clan; not having any issues. Yeti, Myself, Charge, HLWG, etc have all gone through this. Whenever you join a new group, a new way or what have you there will always be some resistance. But when you reply to this resistance in a completely ignorant and derogatory way such as this, what else are we left to do?

Now on to the other aspect, the actual skill level. As many of you know, I really don't have to much of a problem training people, helping people; clannies or pubs. After many tryouts I try and go through what they did wrong, how they can improve etc. That being said, Territo was given the same sorts of "training" as we have given many other players. What many people don't understand is that this game doe take some cognitive power on your part. Just because "You were given training" doesn't mean your good, will be good or any of the sort. We simply show you where you failing, share some of the information that is "read inbetween the lines" (Things like fire orb vs evasion etc.). In the end, like in a University type setting, we don't so much teach you everything you need to know. We simply try and teach you how to think and the foundations so that you may come to your own conclusions. Why? because giving everyone 4 builds to play with, an item system and blah blah isn't training, it's simply forming a sheep. We don't want sheeps, we want shepherds. This was one of his shortcomings. When we would try and correct his strategy, he would tell us we don't know what we are talking about and continue his own path. We weren't put into positions of power, gained ability to place in the top of the tournaments for no reason. When we are helping you, or trying to teach you, it is expected you listen. Would you sit here and tell your Biology professor that evolution is a bunch of bullshit because you think we all descended from Adam and Eve? No, you shut up, take your notes, learn and hopefully expand your narrow mind. I'll feed one example,

Custom Hero Line Wars
Glorn2 & Yetidiah vs Territo, Myself, Pissonmyhands

In Duels: Glorn had a healer, Yeti had a complete beast tank. Me and Piss repeatedly asked Territo to focus Glorn first, as Yeti was 3x the strength, and Glorn was just feeding heal after heal. After telling us that were wrong, he continued to attack Yeti duel after duel, He would die quickly and in the end we lost a majority of the duels because of this. Common sense would seem to dictate that you would kill the weakest off first, especially when that weakest heals the strongest. Mother Nature follows this principle, ever watch a Lion hunt? They don't attack the male patriarchs, they attack the prey that has an injured leg. But Territo would not develop this logic, would not listen to us, thus in my eyes he becomes unteachable. Especially when I've heard similar circumstances coming from many others whom have had tried to help.

Yes, I've heard all the other stories about "How he doesn't listen" etc, I really don't want this turning into a us vs him, I just wanted to shed some light on some of the struggle we have had with him.

This is getting lengthy as is, so if you have more questions/comments feel free to contact me but I'll conclude now. As on the Territo issue, his disregard for clan norms, inability to teach and down right attitude is unacceptable. Sending out a mass post degrading the entire clan management, and furthermore the entire clan itself is unacceptable. I will not say this in an certainty, but using medical issues to cover up this behaviour is also intolerable. I could very well be wrong, but until this message was brought to light I have never once noticed a single bi-polar, major depressive or OCD tendency from Territo. You can call me ignorant, but I am bi-polar myself and have a fairly good idea of what I'm talking about. Nonetheless I could be wrong, but if I am not, using these to guilt trip people into emotion is completely offensive to me, and is not a characterization I want for anyone apart of my clan. Agree with me or disagree with me, he will not be reinstated. I reached out a hand because I believed at that time he just got mad one day and clicked leave clan. I did not know about this ... tasteful ... message he had sent, and if I would have than the re-invitation would have never occurred. This wasn't so much Myself and Yeti kicking someone from the clan, but refuting my previous judgement as to reaccepting him back into the clan.
----------------------------------------

As for the Shankz issue:

I was quite shocked that you had taken it upon yourself to leave, but nonetheless if that's your feelings than it is your feelings.
Quote :
0] Shankz : guess its just shamans n the rest of the clan is chopped liver =[

I am really not that pleased with comments like that, especially when me and you have had our differences in the past about running your mouth. You did not care to come talk to me about my reasons for doing this, you just assumed it was because of "x" while that did play a small factor into what happened, it was merely the icing that topped the cake. And your right, this decision does fall onto the Shamans and Glorn. Membership and administration is a part of being a manager. Me and Yeti's feelings were the same, and from talks previously I knew Glorn's feelings on the subject. He didn't seem to be a good fit, as now every time something didn't go his way we very likely would have to face more rage messages, more drama and more bullshit. This is something that I really wish to not see. If not letting one person in the entire of B-Net solves this issue, than let it be solved. He had his chance, in my opinion he was his own worst enemy. That being said, if you have had some time to clear your head, after reading this post you realize where we were coming from you are more than welcome to come back. If you, and others decide to cause another clan split and create more drama out of this issue and try and create another little "revolution" we will not be sitting here with open arms when you realize your mistake. So make your decision, if you don't like the fact that the Shamans / Chief has to make executive decisions on par with clan management sometimes, than be on your way and show us how its done. If you can accept this fact, then welcome back brother.
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epicpowda11
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PostSubject: Re: The Territo Issue   Sun Dec 05, 2010 7:45 pm

Oh and before we all get on our high horses here,

Quote :
I HOPE SHANKZ IS HAPPY CUZ HE WONT HAVE TO WASTE HIS BREATH CALLING ME A DUMBFUCK OR A RETARD OR ANYTHING ELSE HE CALLS ME! I HOPE TIFF IS HAPPY CUZ SHE WONT WASTE A FUCKEN BREATH MAKING FUN OF ME WHEN I CAN MAKE A MILLION COMEBACKS AT HER, BUT I DECIDE NOT TO!

Apparently we weren't the only ones that were a little passed fed up Shankz.
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Shankz
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PostSubject: Re: The Territo Issue   Sun Dec 05, 2010 9:33 pm

Yeah I apologize for my comments guys.
I was just having a bad day, but thats still no excuse. I love this clan and everyone in it n tbh i havent been on but once since i left. I apologize to epic for most of the time im making comments about ur gf n shit that rlly doesnt need to be said. I apologize to yeti for just being a dick. I apologize to chao for raging instead of getting all of the facts first.Sad

My feelings haven't changed on the Territo Issue, But like glorn said when char merged with bn and chao; "things will be ran like bn was." and Im sorry for over stepping my place.
It won't happen again.
If im still allowed in clan, next time one of u 3 are on as the same time as me recuit me. Cya Guys around, thx epic for clearifying this for me.
Again i apologize to chao for my actions.
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Glorn2
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PostSubject: Re: The Territo Issue   Sun Dec 05, 2010 9:57 pm

yeyyy; we got shankz back.

My thoughts on the situation:

The reason I have shaman, is to make decisions like these. I do what is in the better interest if the clan. This often makes me an asshole. My shaman are here to counter my cold-calculated decisions. It was my understanding, and theirs, that the majority of people were fed up with territo's attitude. we still play with him; we did like 6 games yesterday; we aren' banishing him as a player or anything. From the prespective of a clan though; he is bad for us. If anyone was to act the way he does, they would get kicked.

real life problems give you no special privledges in the interwebs. A blind person is not allowed to drive a car. It may not be fair, but it is for the general safty of the population. you are not allowed into the airforce unless you have perfect vision. Various orginizations set forth basic parameters in terms of acceptance; we are one of those organizations. Our stipulation is maturity. Anyone who causes drama, and tells stories to cause various factions of the clan to feel alienated or subjegated, will not be allowed into the clan, or allowed to compete in clan events.

If your parents beat you; I feel for yeh; but keep your issues off the internet. you got cancer? Okay, you can still act like a mature adult. Really, there is no reason that any player cannot act their age, or simply keep their mouth shut. It is a personal preference not to; so, it is said persons choice not to be a part of the clan.


Sooo, yayyy, drama over?

****************************************************************
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PostSubject: Re: The Territo Issue   Sun Dec 05, 2010 10:15 pm

Quote :
We don't want sheeps, we want shepherds.

this made reading that wall of text all worth it lol...

but i think we can come to the consensus that we can trust you guys with stuff like this, but i think if someone is being kicked from the clan it should be made public and not be a ninja think that gets blown out in rumors.... the best way to eliminate drama is to be as open as possible with the community
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PostSubject: Re: The Territo Issue   Sun Dec 05, 2010 10:30 pm

good point; I agree with charged; this post should have been made as soon as territo was kicked. I didnt even know the whole story until I read this.. I just heard "epic and yeti kicked him" but, as I promoted them to positions of power; I trusted they did so for the right reasons. I can see how other people might question their decisions though.

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PostSubject: Re: The Territo Issue   Sun Dec 05, 2010 10:31 pm

i think its time this is closed before it becomes a bitchfest
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