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 *GameChangers* Revs2 Suggestions

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Glorn2
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PostSubject: *GameChangers* Revs2 Suggestions   Thu Dec 02, 2010 8:21 pm

I am looking for some game-altering ideas for the revolutions2 version. Not contriversial stuff that would only help a few people and hurt a lot. Nothing that will be hundreds of hours of work with almost no result (Dota item-combo system), and nothing that is... yeh know... stupid?

I wont be able to do everything suggested, but if we get a decent list, we can vote on 2-3 things that we would really like to see...

I got:
Remove attack speed from agility, add +attack speed to items (balance AGI heroes as needed)
Add in a new skill shop that requires HP to cast the spells. (Would raise the max level, and scale the game to follow suit)
add in a new skill shop that does damage based on stats, and various... yeh know.. things... based on stats (Cannot have this and the above)
Add in 30-40 new skills into the current system (Not to be combined with either of the two above)
Give most creeps various forms of spell reduction; in turn, scaling spell damage up a little more... again... so it is more PVP oriented but can still creep on par.
*new* Use a multiple inventories system, allowing players to carry 8 items at once.


****That is all I got for now, you can make your own suggestions for BIG things (again, nothing stupid, not a skill, a hero, an item) or you can argue about which of the above you like; or how it would break the game; ect. I plan to do at least 2 major changes to the game.

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Last edited by Glorn2 on Mon Jul 18, 2011 12:47 pm; edited 1 time in total
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PostSubject: Re: *GameChangers* Revs2 Suggestions   Thu Dec 02, 2010 8:30 pm

I dont like the agility attack speed one because that all agility heros got going for them. Armor offers so little damage reduction and you need like 14 agility to every point of armor it gives. Maybe I suck at playing agility but playing strength I have maybe 100 less attack speed then them but I tower over them by +150 base damage or more and have nearly double their hp.
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PostSubject: Re: *GameChangers* Revs2 Suggestions   Thu Dec 02, 2010 8:45 pm

again; I stated I would buff agility to compensate. This could mean 2X the armor from agility, lower BAT's than other classes, better move speed; or whatever I deem rendeds them "balanced" in the face of this nerf to agility. Also; it is highly possible that agility items will have more +attack speed on them.

My idea behind this is that by the 2nd duel, someone with insane desire, could hit max attack speed. by 3rd duel, someone who wants to try it out, can hit max attack speed. By 4th duel; the majority of players should at least be close to max attack speed. by 5th duel, if you arent maxed, you are a nooby-kins, or have a unique build that isnt based around attacking. I would like to change it up where max attack speed is something you dont get until much later in the game; level 30-35, rather than level 18-22.

Just a heads up: Assume with these changes that anything affected will be balanced. I do not intend to destroy the map by adding something big and not molding the rest of the game to flow smoothly with it. So, anyone with a suggestion, put some thought into it how other things could be balanced to make your idea work. Something like +10 base damage on all heroes, could be made valid by saying "everyone gets the same buff, and it allows for auto attackers to stand a chance earlier game against someone with all spells" and as a way to make it not OP; reduce hero damage on hero armor by 2%. Something like that.

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PostSubject: Re: *GameChangers* Revs2 Suggestions   Thu Dec 02, 2010 8:51 pm

I love the idea of changing the game like this :shorten the distance b/t the two middle spawns more ;D
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PostSubject: Re: *GameChangers* Revs2 Suggestions   Thu Dec 02, 2010 9:22 pm

hey, you just broke all of the rules of posting, with exception to the hundreds of hours of work; good job!

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PostSubject: Re: *GameChangers* Revs2 Suggestions   Thu Dec 02, 2010 9:31 pm

I like the 30 - 40 new skills and up to 8 slots of inventory Very Happy

those 2 got my vote.
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PostSubject: Re: *GameChangers* Revs2 Suggestions   Thu Dec 02, 2010 10:28 pm

i think limiting the inventory to 6 slots is one of the larger startegy elements of the game. having to choose which items will give you the best benefits keeps it more startegically rigorous. i feel by adding to many inventory slots the game will take much more of an RPG feel than an arena game feel, which i would hope you would be against.

Another suggestion

Decrease movespeeds by 50 on all heroes. i feel like the move speed increase due to % endurance auras makes everyone reach nearly max move speed around mid game. though this will slow down the game a little, it will make ganking more effective on small maps and will make people have to focus on map awareness more
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PostSubject: Re: *GameChangers* Revs2 Suggestions   Thu Dec 02, 2010 10:32 pm

lol, good suggestion charge. What is funny is; if you read back about 87 pages, someone suggested in revolutions i add 50 MS to all the heroes; which i was initially against, but eventually did. I will gladly remove that 50 if no one came come up with a good argument as to why I should not.

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PostSubject: Re: *GameChangers* Revs2 Suggestions   Thu Dec 02, 2010 10:32 pm

On the AGI Hero topic

i completely agree take away agi from attack speed and make AGI heros have the lowest BAT along with bonus armor.

The main problem with this is that everyone will have 100% attackspeed most of the game.
this could be remediated by adding like 5-50 attack speed on almost every item or atleast like half of them but i don't think agi should get any preference over other item classes in this. 50 only being on the high end late game items (not immortals) and 5-10 being in the early game shops.

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PostSubject: Re: *GameChangers* Revs2 Suggestions   Thu Dec 02, 2010 10:33 pm

i feel like we discussed all these changes about 1000x lol i have more suggestions on balancing i kinda wanna rework the spell damage reduction system... it will require you to do some work, but i think it might actually be fun....
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PostSubject: Re: *GameChangers* Revs2 Suggestions   Thu Dec 02, 2010 11:00 pm

gonna be on vent at midnight, or care to explain your idea? With spell damage reduction, I dont plan to make it a triggered system; know that much. It would just put too much pressure on the system, with all of the various abilities it would have to run wayyyyy too many actions at once, every cast, to work.

However, if you are thinking something along the lines of putting more spell reduction on items; or making various items to lower a players reduction; ect, ect... I could work with that.

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PostSubject: Re: *GameChangers* Revs2 Suggestions   Thu Dec 02, 2010 11:18 pm

Wouldnt it be easier to simply raise the amount of agility per attack speed? Im more sold on the idea but Im for the easy way out more. 4 agility=1 attack speed. How many items give bonus attack speed? Sword, Sets, Timebenders or whatever introduce items that give attack speed and increase the amount of agility to each % of attack speed.
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PostSubject: Re: *GameChangers* Revs2 Suggestions   Thu Dec 02, 2010 11:26 pm

I'm not sure how my suggestion breaks the rules. my reasoning behind it was to encourage more field pvp. i feel that based on previous experiences in increasing the amount of out of arena pvp we have raised the skill cap drastically. it's my opinion that taking the middle spawn should hold more of a risk than taking the other two and should also be more vulnerable to the other team as well. essentially all it would take is increasing the distance b/t the base and middle spawn and decreasing the distance of the current gap and you would change things a lot as the longer travel distance back to base = increased vulnerablity to gank and the decreased distance b/t 2 creep spawns = higher reward. (thats been the principle behind the mid spawn as far as i've always seen it) amplifying it more to give it a more defined purpose doesnt see too bad -_-
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PostSubject: Re: *GameChangers* Revs2 Suggestions   Fri Dec 03, 2010 12:01 am

andddd, lost my post... so, starting over....

didnot: I wish it was that easy; in the game settings the lowest it can go is 1 AGI=1%. Sadly, there is no way to make it lower than that, or else I would take the much easier way around it.

piss: That would only create an imbalance supporting someone with a heavy farmer build to win the game much easier. The fact that center spawns have 7 creeps is what people go there for. It takes me 4 seconds to cross center and get to an opponents spawn. Windwalking, it takes 2.5. The only think that would happen if they were closer is that people with farming ults could EASILY kill 14 creeps at once (3 regular spawns) and, well, that is imba.

have you ever seen 2 people legitly fight over center spawns? I havent. Usually, someone who is strong, and freshly healed runs over and scares their opponent away, or kills them, and takes their spawn. there is no field pvp or skill curve to that. It is simply being an opportunist. however, I do not do things that support the winning person more easily winning; which is what your suggestion is.

As I've told you before, "greed is inherent in human nature, we all want to win." Overcome that, and you might be able to make good suggestions.

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PostSubject: Re: *GameChangers* Revs2 Suggestions   Fri Dec 03, 2010 12:09 am

well i was gonna do something that wasn't too trigger heavy... but since you dont wanna do that ill nix that i was gonna suggest implementing a system of stacking magic reductions from items etc using indexes for items and such, of course you would have to nerf the hell out of the magic reduction for existing items, but still it would be fun.

another idea that was trigger intensive for magic reduction was gonna be to remove it as an independent skill and stick it onto intel, this also would be a little trigger heavy relying on either a triggered heal for a certain % of spell damage based on teh amount of int... it would have to work like armor so spell damage never went down to 0 but 2000 int would take spell damage down by like 90% using maybe a logrithmic system...

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PostSubject: Re: *GameChangers* Revs2 Suggestions   Fri Dec 03, 2010 12:25 am

my argument against that is that it would make int, by far, the strongest at resisting spells; which they already are. Int is too easy to play to get a buff like that. But I do think some way of changing spell damage up would be cool; I am just unsure of a suitable way to do it. really all I can think of is through items. Maybe add a few more consumable shops; various types of bombs? that would be neat, eh?

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PostSubject: Re: *GameChangers* Revs2 Suggestions   Fri Dec 03, 2010 12:31 am

maybe some physcial damage bombs? but in no way am i suggesting i direct buff, i would def have to ask for some nerf mainly in the amount of mana regen'd for int...
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PostSubject: Re: *GameChangers* Revs2 Suggestions   Fri Dec 03, 2010 12:34 am

i had a great idea though for making int a little less powerful and a little moer on par with other classes, why not add a secondary set of items that makes you sacrifice your mana for HP or vice versa... maybe a 1000 gold item with a 45 sec cd that will deal 150 damage to yourself for 100 mana or something... i think that would be an interesting concept to introduce...
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PostSubject: Re: *GameChangers* Revs2 Suggestions   Fri Dec 03, 2010 1:00 am

true but if u wanna go about it like that, you could make it work if you worked w/ charges idea of nerfing int.
IMO int is indeed in need of a nerf seeing as they get all of their attacking, stats, health, resist in one neat little bundle and can easily stack more attack than anyone. if played right that if played right they rape face after face all the way up to mid/midlate. agi and str take too long to get started to compare to int. saying that pure agi or pure str can ever be greater than the stat balancing in int builds is not realistic. str and agi based heroes only start to get stronger when they have a balance and high amount of agi and str (which only happens in the midlate game) but until then they are the play things of anyone whose playing int right. midlate takes a long time to get to and i feel you could effectively and without pressure take the game from them before then. its too easy is what i'm saying and needs to be made a little harder. even if it is by splitting the item tier a little more.


Also when you take away the agi attack speed bonus remember your essentially cleaving the structure of the meta game in half so there will be a lot of changes in that sense. It's basically my way of justifying a switch in the int metagame/macro

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PostSubject: Re: *GameChangers* Revs2 Suggestions   Fri Dec 03, 2010 1:16 am

honestly i think you just like to use meta game and macro/micro

but seriously int is only so strong because there aren't as many good agi players left... besides storm panda, none of the other agi are used by anyone but me right now (excluding fats because his faggot ass is never on)...

but i think int doesn't need a nerf as badly as agi needs a slight buff, str i feel might need a slight nerf but not too much...
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PostSubject: Re: *GameChangers* Revs2 Suggestions   Fri Dec 03, 2010 5:04 pm

I got nothing to add to this. I will give one warning the more complicated the game becomes the harder it is to explain. I've played agility once or twice they're not too bad. I think storm panda played more often because he is imbalanced compared to the other ranged agility heroes. He has a better base attack time then them, better base starting stats, and on average he has better stat growth then them. This is not to say storm panda is extremely over powered but he has a slight advantage over the other ranged heroes.
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PostSubject: Re: *GameChangers* Revs2 Suggestions   Fri Dec 03, 2010 8:25 pm

true; but it is due to his low AGI gain. Compare him to priestess, who has more armor, much more move speed, better range, same total stat gain, and .15 (i think) higher BAT. But, those 2 are better than the other ranged AGI, imo... But simply because they have the ability to spell farm. A dark elf has a 9 total stat gain also; but slow move speed. 4.8 AGI gain and 32 starting AGI is pretty insane though; her BAT and movespeed are her only drawbacks; movespeed is easily overcome on AGI, so her BAT is her only weakness. And really, her BAT compared to storm is .2ish slower, right? That is about 15% less DPS autoattacking. Which isnt toooo bad; considering of you have 1000 damage on storm, you only need 1150 on to make up for the BAT difference. 70-80 of that is made up in AGI gain alone. The difference is about 10,000G spent on AGI tomes; meaning that really, it is everything else in the game that wil decide who wins.

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PostSubject: Re: *GameChangers* Revs2 Suggestions   Sat Dec 04, 2010 12:15 am

Hey Glorn, I got an idea that has nothing to do with the topic but could maybe help with map changes you make.

I know the -lagless feature removes extra map stuff so people dont lag out. Well, why dont you just remove all that extra stuff permanently? It would remove doodads, making the map faster to load and would allow you to add more stuff to the map with one less trigger and less crap to load. Even if it is one trigger, it might make a difference. Then again, the things you remove are so little, that it wont make any difference if you take them out or leave them. Just an idea though.
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Glorn2
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PostSubject: Re: *GameChangers* Revs2 Suggestions   Sat Dec 04, 2010 12:31 am

they are pre-placed on the map; and really, lagless helps maybe 1% of the people who play WC3. They dont really use up many game resources; there are maybe 200 destructables removed with that command. Of those 200, there are prolly 15 different ones; meaning there is only map load time added for 15 of them; which is about .25 seconds. Considering many games use 5000 or so; the measely 200 I use are nothing. 1 cast of whirlpool creates ~30X more CPU-usage graphics than all of the doodads on the map. Unless you are running a single core celeron and 256 mb of RAM; lagless has no affect on your gameplay. Really, I am thinking of removing it, because I think most people use it so that their opponents cannot kite or gank as easily.

A fair suggestion considering I expect no one to know how any of this works; but alas, it wouldnt do much. I'm actually thinking of turning -lagless into a vote system also... I hate how bare a map looks with no destructables...

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PostSubject: Re: *GameChangers* Revs2 Suggestions   Sat Dec 04, 2010 12:37 am

oh ok, had no idea about all that. =P
Anyways, it makes a slight difference when I play but thats due to my slow comp cuz the only thing my sis does is fill it with music, pictures, videos, saved MSN chats, and Facebook crap. I swear, I cant even defragment the damn thing cuz she uses up all the disk space. XD
But yea, thnx for the info.
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