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 CHAR-Line Wars

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Glorn2
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PostSubject: CHAR-Line Wars   Fri Nov 12, 2010 9:27 pm

What do you guys think? Custom Hero Arena Line Wars?

Background:
The one made by BAKA-Ranger used to be one of my favorite maps. The downside was that it was horribly imbalanced. there were maybe 3 builds that would destroy the world. On the hardest mode, you have to spam summons or die. Without getting into how good everyone used to be at CHLW, let us discuss the making one a new one.

I think that using the same object editor as the current game, and the same hero selection system, we could make a really kick ass CHLW of our own; and it will be unique of the dozens of other forms of hero line war games, while having the same concepts.

After more than 2-1/2 years of editing CHA, I have come to the decision that it is really hard to continue adding content to the game; especially after these newest patches. I have come to the same conclusion many other times though. The same thing happened after each of my major edits though, Each solid version of Unlimited that is. Any more editing will increase the load time though, due to preloading. So I wanna stay away from that as much as possible... However, I still want a spell pack released in 6-8 months; at least 20 new spells by then is my goal.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

General Idea for the game:

Creep Summoning:
- Each "space" in the summoning shop will spawn a level of creep. That is, a random level 1 creep will be the first creep type that you spawn.
- Every time you click it, it will spawn another random level 1 creep.
- This will be how it levels, 11 levels per shop, 4 shops, upgraded (1 upgrade button per level) and 4 bosses at the end to spawn.

Income:
- One thing I hated about all hero line wars games was the insane need for an income. I was OP at most games, because I would give up 50 lives to have 2X everyone elses income. Then, I couldn't lose.
- Income will come from summoning only; gold from killing.
- While the game will be reasonably fast paced, I dont plan for people to get high incomes; creeps will give a low gold gain from being killed, and from being summoned.
- Of course, there will be more creeps added at various levels, so at more than level 10 you can spam flying critters.

Items:
- Items are the 1 thing I dont want to change. there are really about 450 items in the game that I would have to change. So, I plan to balance the gold rate of the game, around the cost of items. Call me cheap, but it is true.

Heroes:
-Obviously balancing will become an issue, but The only main change I plan for heroes is to make global EXP sharing (another annoying thing about CHLW was people bitching that they wanted to solo a lane, because there was no EXP sharing) and to lower the leveling rate; so it progresses at the same rate; on a gamescale.

Abilities:
- Of course I will have to re-scale all of these, lowering damage on a lot of spells, or giving spell reduction to a vast majority of creeps. Would be kinda OP for 4 players to pick frost fail, and stand in 1 spot all game winning.
- But, I plan to keep the current abilities in the game.
- The same hero picking system will exist.

PVP:
- There will be a portal that takes you through a Yiff area, with a treasure chest. you can kill it for gold, or you can continue through another portal into your opponents base area, and can attempt to mess them up while being over there.
- I want to add a -challenge feature, where you can challenge other players to a duel, and it takes you to an arena and you fight to the death for extra gold and to gain extra lives for your team. Of course there will be a cooldown on how often you can challenge another player.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Some Logical thinking:
- Not everyone loves hero arenas.
- Not everyone is familliar with the CHA hero, item, and ability layout.
- A lot of people like hero line wars.
- CHLW is pretty stale.
- If people can learn all the items and abilities from 1 game, and be able to use them in another game to a similar affect... They will be happier.
- If DoTA made a hero arena, an RPG, a line wars, and somehow threw a TD into the mix... Those would be the top 5 maps hosted on battle.net. not only that, but the number of people playing DOTA type games would greatly increase. there would be a greater overflow of people who play hero lines wars, trying out the hero arena, or TD, or RPG. Why? They dont have to go through that newbier phase when trying out a new map. they can carry over their knowledge into a new game with similar things.
- DoTA isnt doing it... So CHA should! If nothing else, it will greatly expand the CHA community!


Thoughts? Questions?

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Last edited by Glorn2 on Sun Nov 14, 2010 7:57 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Sharky
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PostSubject: Re: CHAR-Line Wars   Fri Nov 12, 2010 10:09 pm

Go for it.
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PostSubject: Re: CHAR-Line Wars   Fri Nov 12, 2010 10:16 pm

we should just rename ourselves to custom kings Very Happy Wink
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PostSubject: Re: CHAR-Line Wars   Fri Nov 12, 2010 11:15 pm

That phase is over piss Wink

back on topic, that would be awesome, though I think you should base it off of the early Grass edits of revo (ive been off wc3 for so long now i don't remember edit names Sad ) to start off, a LW game is a bit more complicated than an arena game as far as multi tasking (against good people) and it would be a lot easier to start off without the ability to buy skill levels and such
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PostSubject: Re: CHAR-Line Wars   Fri Nov 12, 2010 11:44 pm

oi, sounds like a great idea!
i used to play HLW too, it was fun!
The part where u can go to the other team's base sounds nice as well.
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PostSubject: Re: CHAR-Line Wars   Sat Nov 13, 2010 3:32 am

im shitfaeced, but anything with HLW sounds like a plan!!!
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PostSubject: Re: CHAR-Line Wars   Sat Nov 13, 2010 4:10 am

i 4got i dont think u were even here for the actual custom kings phase ^_^. they died sooo long ago right when glorn started editing...can we get a draw up of the pvp phase/ arenas/ portals. when ur well and ready of course
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PostSubject: Re: CHAR-Line Wars   Sat Nov 13, 2010 6:38 am

that was fun i just played w/ yeti that was pretty freggin epic
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PostSubject: Re: CHAR-Line Wars   Sat Nov 13, 2010 12:14 pm

i was btw... i was so stoked when i saw fyuocuk hosting a 1v1 game and i was the first one to get in Razz. i got a new comp shortly after so i kinda dissapeared for a while, and taht's gonna happen again Sad

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PostSubject: Re: CHAR-Line Wars   Sat Nov 13, 2010 12:45 pm

HLWG wrote:
im shitfaeced, but anything with HLW sounds like a plan!!!

I'll take everyones word for it. Smile lets git'r'done
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PostSubject: Re: CHAR-Line Wars   Sat Nov 13, 2010 3:22 pm

sounds good.

i might actually get on wc3 and beta test this xD
something new from the boring old cha.
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PostSubject: Re: CHAR-Line Wars   Sun Nov 14, 2010 7:58 pm

bump, this is now an official game, and I am taking suggestions for it. A few people have tested it; and we.. for 2 days of mapmaking, it is pretty decent!

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PostSubject: Re: CHAR-Line Wars   Sun Nov 14, 2010 11:22 pm

hey id love to help with that if I can!
Just lemme know what I can do!
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PostSubject: Re: CHAR-Line Wars   Sun Nov 14, 2010 11:46 pm

I'm so pissed i can't get on wc3 right now....
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PostSubject: Re: CHAR-Line Wars   Mon Nov 15, 2010 9:37 pm

is there a version of the map I can download to test? Or is this still too new?
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PostSubject: Re: CHAR-Line Wars   Tue Nov 16, 2010 9:33 am

well glorn commented yesterday over vent sayin that if he stayed up til mid night he could get a working version done, then all that would need to be done is balancing..idk if he did tho xD
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PostSubject: Re: CHAR-Line Wars   Tue Nov 16, 2010 9:38 am

Nope; I did other things, then slept. Gimme a few more days.

Ohh, also...

I'm changing it so that you get lumber from summoning, and it costs lumber to summon. You can trade lumber for gold though, in disproportionate amounts.

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PostSubject: Re: CHAR-Line Wars   Tue Nov 16, 2010 11:21 am

Is hero line wars hard to play? I've honestly never given any of those a try. Maybe I will when this comes out. Would any of you mind showing me the ropes?
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PostSubject: Re: CHAR-Line Wars   Tue Nov 16, 2010 12:50 pm

This one is a lot different from normal hero line wars. However, in most hero line wars, to win, very easily, every single game...

Summon, summon, summon. hide behind your idiot ally who spends all of his gold on items; and attempt to KS him.
Summon more, keep summoning, continue to summon.

When your idiot ally is getting destroyed by creeps, you are getting 1 shot, and you have lost half of your lives...

Summon, summon, summon, summon. Spam huge summons, the biggest ones you can buy; so the other team will buy items, rather than summon.

type -income to feel good about yourself, seeing as your income is 6X higher than anyone elses.

Summon for a few more minutes; then with a single income, buy more gear than anyone else has.

Continue to summon for 15 minutes or so.

Go buy all of the best gear in the game.

Summon the biggest monsters in the game, because your income is now over 1 million and you can solo the entire map without selecting your hero.


^^With H and Yeti as my witnesses, this is how you win, every time.


In CHALW; I am attempting to take a different route; where summoning isnt key to winning, and heroes and skills are balanced (what I hate about most HLW games is the insane imbalances, trying to scale people from earning 40 gold every 30 seconds to earning 4 billion)

Also, in CHALW there will be duels, and much more PVP. But, if you learn to play a normal HLW, this should be pretty easy to adapt to; it is really a mix of CHA and HLW.

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PostSubject: Re: CHAR-Line Wars   Tue Nov 16, 2010 1:36 pm

i will vouch that glorns summary is spot on. although sometimes if i knew i was screwed I would spam as many small guys as i possibly can and wager that my computer can handle the lag better than the other guys and win by D/C. This same strategy has been used several times in line tower war type games. a win is a win Smile.

glorn the custom hero line wars game started out with having secret recipes, then those recipes became items similar to how CHAR is now. If you have these more powerful items were you leaning towards them being 'secret' or noob friendly recipes like CHAR? I would assume you would apply the same logic from Char but just curious. Also something that might be interesting to consider, probably down the road, would be a special mode that allows shared income, similar to team line tower war. Basically allows for another level of strategy, I tank you send type stuff.

anyways yea im looking forward to this as i enjoyed playing the TLW games but once i got good enough to win every game was exactly the same.
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PostSubject: Re: CHAR-Line Wars   Tue Nov 16, 2010 1:43 pm

Glorn2 wrote:
^^With H and Yeti as my witnesses, this is how you win, every time.

Yeah, we were playing an old version, my hero was soloing every single mob easily with just potions,but i kept forgetting to summon, and glorn (who was on my team) was at over 200,000 income every 8ish seconds. he spent all his gold every time on strength tomes (since he was str and str gives health regen in that game, but hopefully not in this version) andhe was at about 13000 base strength, which is an absurd amount of health/health regen/damage. he literally just stood there and spammed more summons to the other team, and even though they had an even balance between items and summoning, the mass summon just overpowers it every single time. I also like the idea of lumber summoning, it seems appropriate. taht way you can balance items and summoning. Also, i think that you shouldnt make gold -> lumber transfers to Glorn-style summons. but you should definately make lumber -> gold transfers for the people who do choose to summon, but make it so that like 5 lumber = 1 gold so that way it doesnt get too imbalanced.
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PostSubject: Re: CHAR-Line Wars   Tue Nov 16, 2010 1:46 pm

sorry for the double post, verti posted his while i was typing mine

verti89 wrote:
if i knew i was screwed I would spam as many small guys as i possibly can and wager that my computer can handle the lag better than the other guys and win by D/C.

Glorn made it so that there are only 10 of any given unit in the summon house at a time which prevents winning via DC
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PostSubject: Re: CHAR-Line Wars   Tue Nov 16, 2010 1:48 pm

TW1.9 is the proiest game ever... keaner knows...

However, Shared income is there, as is individual income.

The values might have to change, but what I have going on right now...

You need lumber to summon, and you get your own personal income, in terms of lumber.
You can cash lumber in for more gold; or buy lumber for gold.
Gold is worth a lot more than lumber.
Every income, your team also gets gold equal to 1/4th the average lumber income for your team.

I think with this set up (again, values might have to be changed) People can still go with a "I summon, you defend" type method. I however dont think it will wrk better than everyone doing both things, but it will be easier for the players. Have 1 guy pool the other lumber, and that guy sends gold back in return. Then mid game, you can give each other what they dont gain; so they arent 100% useless at their off-choice.


also, there is a cooldown on summons, 8 second on each summon. So, while you can still easily spam from a single shrine, shrine sharing will allow you to spam more for more income.

As with most games, weaker creeps give more income per gold spent. But, your opponents get better EXP from them. Gold values are creep level X 10, pretty simple; so spamming weaker creeps gives your opponents more gold as well.

EDIT FOR H*****
I plan to do a 5 to 1 lumber to gold ratio, and a 2 to 1 gold to lumber ratio; so either way, you are losing whatever you are trying to trade away.

edit again...
10 creeps cap, 8 second CD per creep. However, with a 6v6, sharing shrines, you can summon about 50 creeps a second, 11 creep types per house... that is still 660 creeps as fast as you can hotkey (about 7 second for me) Which could prolly crash wrath, or others with a weak PC; but compared to the ~1000 you can summon in CHLW... Also, I found, they run a lot of scripts that eat away at your CPU power. They remake their scoreboard every second... Which is like a 50 action trigger. If they made better triggers for things like that, im sure half the ppl that drop now would still drop.

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Last edited by Glorn2 on Tue Nov 16, 2010 1:51 pm; edited 1 time in total
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PostSubject: Re: CHAR-Line Wars   Tue Nov 16, 2010 1:51 pm

great, im all too sick of seing games where its 1:1 gold:lumber ratio. so imba
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PostSubject: Re: CHAR-Line Wars   Tue Nov 16, 2010 1:53 pm

^^ Before I got into CHA, HLW and TW were all I really played; for like 2 years. I became "unbeatable" at them. Same pattern I took with CHA. I know most of the problems presented by this type of game, and I am trying to do away with all of them on the first edit; rather than taking 2-1/2 years to get it right (fucking CHAR)

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